Theos-Talk Archives (May 2009 Message tt00299)

Dear john and friends

My views are:

Allright.
Thanks for your answer.

Are you saying that promoting a huge New Age bookstore in fact would be a better idea, regardless of the the content of the books and whether the author is livning or dead, and whether the teacing of the book is in opposition to theosophical teachings?

I hold it to be true, that the TS in Blavatsky's time never made an income from selleing books. The books sold was always givne to the authors. All of them being alive. But, maybe there is another angle I am not aware of.

And Yes, why not Tukaram since Blavatsky recommended him higly. That really baffles me, and shows me how much Blavatsky's words and teachings still are kept boged down by a stance, which is a failure theosophically speaking. Because one promotes books which are in ooposition to the original programe, even if related to our present time. But which books to allow requires of course a skilled hand.

John wrote:
"Morten I don't personally think any one that Publishes or sells Books are, or should be required to inform people to buy it free online."

I say:
A little mount of compassion could be wise. Money is energy. It takes time and involved people, when you order a book on the Internet.
It is cheaper and more wise to run a server with PDF verions online, that the opposite way around. Downloading book from the Internet, also requires the proper edition of the book, and that the place downloading the book from is honest and haven't changed the content of the book. One example is The Secret Doctrine - Pasadena versus ULT Lodge versions. - Let us save time, people, money and show some heart. What do you think?

Sometimes I almost get a bad fit when people degrade The Key to Theosophy. I say:
The Key to Theosophy aught to be the first book to read by any new member, if they hav'nt already read it.
Because this book contains the foundation of the TS and its original programe on HPB's time and before her time. Changing the programe without telling people about it and why is a disgrace!

In fact a book is needed, which in short terms tell the Seekers about the changes made to the original programe from 1875 until today. And why the changes was made.


The wisdom teachings of all ages is not just something invented to entertain people. It is serious stuff, whether people develop compassion and wisdom or will loose another ten incarnations, because the theosophical programe is not what it aught to be.

- - -
H. P. Blavatsky said:
"ENQUIRER. What was the object of this system?

THEOSOPHIST. First of all to inculcate certain great moral truths upon its disciples, and all those who were "lovers of the truth." Hence the motto adopted by the Theosophical Society: "There is no religion higher than truth." â The chief aim of the Founder of the Eclectic Theosophical School was one of the three objects of its modern successor, the Theosophical Society, namely, to reconcile all religions, sects and nations under a common system of ethics, based on eternal verities."


It is vital that the beginner seekers understand this core teaching from the beginning on, so they do not start dancing on into the J. Krishnamurti realms of "pseudo-Pratekya Buddhism" or another strange book sold at TS Adyar or at another socalled theosophical branch.

If a group calls it self theosophical and disagrees with the above quote by H. P. Blavatsky, they aught NOT call themselves theosophical at all. And it is our duty to expose such groups. I know what I talk about, but will people listen?



M. Sufilight


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 3:37 PM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World A CLEAR AND LOUD PROTEST - Business Networking?






  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2009 1:51:05 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
  Subject: Re: Theos-World A CLEAR AND LOUD PROTEST - Business Networking? 

  Morten, 
  Thank you for your reply and comments. 

  >>>About TS selling various books, which as I see it harm the theosopchial cause we will have to disagree for now.<<< 

  Morten I understand you viewpoint and concern but in terms of how all this comes to exist I think it is composed of many elements. A lodge may have been formed for instance of the nucleus comprised of people who due to where they are at in progress in their journey they have dominent 7-fold economies that seeks the dualist realitys and not the pure Theosophy. Their inclinations invariably "reach" for many of those works correlate to their individual 7-fold economies in the book store of the Lodge that turn out to be the ones that most feed the energies that are the sustenance of that type of 7-fold economy which represents the accumulations of past lives and current lives and the karmic group and many other elements. These may not be forced to early reailignment until exhaustion or fruition occurs in the stream of consciousness. So going into the Lodge one usually finds that the selection there will be based on several monitoring reasons. The state of the nucleaus core that compose the Lodge Membership that in turn buys the books that they like, The Catalogue of the Theosophical Publishing List available to Lodges, and a most important factor which is "what the public "reaches" for" when they enter the Lodge Book Store. That indices to the dominent composition of the 7-fold economy of Non-Theosophical citizens who randomly come to a Lodge. It is the same factor that dictates what type or content of a Book a person "reaches" for that largely determines what Wheaton may feature or offer based upon analysis of day to day sales over periods of years and decades. We all have been coached about how the 7-fold economy filters and modifies pure intent apriori to the conscious decisions we make and in my view realism includes allowance that this is a senior operative and automaticy of moment to moment reality . 

  As too "what is the limit" I can entertain the perspective that it is unlimited simply because freewill, choice, and in order to have a closer presentment in the "ideal" sense that an incomplete "universe" is incomplete without that full stream of consciousness in play with all the interactive generated presentments which provide the fullness of reality and therefore the highest potential for the participating beings. The limit is probably when chaos appears in amounts that it alters ability for rationality to properly function and maintain coherence of the universe on the scale from individual to absolute unity of consciousness. 

  I have seen Mein Kamf on the book shelves of a Lodge as well ( I in order to have some idea of what certain world movers are about also read Chairman Mao's Little Red Book, Kadafi's Little Green Book,Kruschev's Book, and others) and most of the other books you cite including both Alice Bailey and CWL. I have CWL's Science of the Sacraments and many other of his works but as you might have noticed reading them didn't necessarily make me a booster of them, it is largely dependent of individual process and fruition. People will read and then internally ferment, digest, mentate, deliberate, analyse in coming to definite choice and whether or not they will be functionally guided by them. Freedom is the ideal of Beingness and restriction or inhibition of the freedom of the Being in it's accomplishment of goals, purpose lines, intentions stifles progress and evolution to higher consciousness. So to stifle "choices" inhibits growth and might stunt the arrival of those "stream swimmers" samsaric journeys. Well if enough people write to Wheaton and ask for them to carry Cril Scott's books maybe they will offer them, but that has other considerations also such as do they deal with the "vendor" of his works, a factor that stifles choices in most Book Stores. It is a cumbersome frustating infrastructure that presents itself to halt the simple desires. Yes, why not Tukaram . 

  Seekers may not use PC's and may not even have libraries accessable to them. I have on more than one occasion tryed to promote friends and acquaintances to download a book that is free online but they refuse telling me "I don't want to download a book to my PC, I want to hold a real book in my hands and read it that way!" . People have their individual sensetivities and itg is to them a personal "flavor" of life itself. 

  Morten I don't personally think any one that Publishes or sells Books are, or should be required to inform people to buy it free online. It is up to individuals to think using their brains to locate such opportunities but they usually first have to get exposed to knowledge of online resources. Today in elementary schools the kids are exposed to this knowledge of free online books in the class rooms and grow up informed of it, change is a process and time exists. 

  Chairman Mao thought "Self Criticism" was a splendid idea at first when he started the "Cultural Revolution" and it's horrid results but he greatly regretted the decision later after the nation was torn to pieces by Plato's monsters due to his sophristry. 

  >>>wonder, why keep hiding the truth about CWL's activities and the 1906 "trial". They only make themselves suspicious and turn people away from them, well except those who are phaedophiles or those average persons who do not understand it all, until later when the knife on the bag comes forward into their hearts. The original idea was that the 'trial'-paper on CWL being kicked out should be made public when and if, the time was right. Since HPB's writings are telling a whole lot about the past history before TS was created, and the truth about various initiatates mistakes (The Key to Theosophy), I see no harm in an HONEST attitude towards ones own past.<<< 

  Morten I remember way back in 1999 and several years after that that you were here in this Forum and and these topics were in the threads back then and other Forum Members here provided a virtual mountain of facts about those topics for a considerably long time in ful detail. Daniel, and other scholars, archivists book authors all contributed much to explain it all to memebers here. It has been much published in books that people have read over the decades. I don't think it is as obscure from my POV. The Key to Theosophy is a fine work but mostly only Theosophists have any exposure to it. If I wnet to the sidewalk and asked people did your read Key to Theosophy? How many do you think would say yes? That is reality. 

  When I read "Hamlets Mill" I much enjoyed that work and it really got me to see the view that stasis is a non-survival condition. Things must continue to "Move on" or like in Hamlets Mill those resistant elements are ground into flour so new bread may be made from them. It is similar about Leadbeater rehashing. Generations will read and discover what they may our time is the "now" in life memory recede as a natural necsessity. Shaking the dust from ones garments is an appropiate aphorism here lol. 

  Regards, 
  John 

  Allright John. 

  About TS selling various books, which as I see it harm the theosopchial cause we will have to disagree for now. 

  The question is where the limit is? How far are TS prepared to go selling books of various kinds? 
  Not Mein Kampf?, Not Sai Baba books (very theosophical in nature), but Ken Wilber is allright? And they will not sell the Alice A. Bailey books, but instead only CWL's books for instance his "The Science of the Sacraments" a book filled with errors, although there also are something good in it. "Man Whence How And Whither" they now wisely omit selling as well as the CWL bestseller "Our Relation to Children". - Why not sell Cyril Scott's trilogy "The Initiate" or offer the phamplet "Revelation or Realization: The Conflict in Theosophy" by J.J. van der Leeuw or the J. Krishnamurti folders/papers, showing that he called himself Maitreya or the Lord? - Indeed, above all why not Tukuram Tatya 's books highly recommended by HPB herself? Or Franz Harmann, the man with many errors, who was sold in HPB's time? - Instead a number of books by J. Krishnamurti, and some hopeless books on Tarot and Astrology, and not to offend the author a useless book named "Gnosticism". Promotiong the Dalai Lama is certainly also a political stance, but is it a theosophical one? The funny thing being, that the staunch anti-CWL theosophist G. R. S. Mead is also being sold.- Is advertisning books without telling the Seekers, that they are available online from the Internet not wrong? - TS has a choice, and they have for years not understood, that their interest in honest COMPARATIVE STUDIES have crystallized a whole lot. And we all wonder why TS seems to be-calling self-criticism a bad thing? 

  I wonder, why keep hiding the truth about CWL's activities and the 1906 "trial". They only make themselves suspicious and turn people away from them, well except those who are phaedophiles or those average persons who do not understand it all, until later when the knife on the bag comes forward into their hearts. The original idea was that the 'trial'-paper on CWL being kicked out should be made public when and if, the time was right. Since HPB's writings are telling a whole lot about the past history before TS was created, and the truth about various initiatates mistakes (The Key to Theosophy), I see no harm in an HONEST attitude towards ones own past. 

  How can a man lying about his own age can be called trustworthy and be relied upon to be THE one who discovered the World Teacher of the Age? I wonder what planet the TS leadership is living on? 

  Self-criticism has never been the hallmark of TS leadership since HPB and Olcott died. And such a leadership is not theosophy proper. 
  This is the weak spot. (I wonder if the leaders read this?) 

  - - - THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TS today and HPB's TS --- 
  Radha Burnier said: "Therefore, in the TS we do not encourage too much interest in so-called occult things." 

  H. P. Blavatsky said: "Let them know at once and remember always, that true Occultism or Theosophy is the "Great Renunciation of SELF," unconditionally and absolutely, in thought as in action. It is ALTRUISM, and it throws him who practises it out of calculation of the ranks of the living altogether. " 

  M. Sufilight 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 4:15 AM 
  Subject: Re: Theos-World A CLEAR AND LOUD PROTEST - Business Networking? 

  Morten, 
  I wasn't attempting to be impolite to you in any form. I did make use of the English langauge according to my impulse generated by reading your post. We all use the language variably. Usually when people protest it is because they feel some sort of outrage in some degree large or small about a perception. For considerable time I and others have read your position about leabbeaters books and other unsanctioned books you revile about over and over here in the thread of the dialogs here. You have for long time protested the lodges even carry works other then Blavatskys and certain others you approve of, I can't help feeling like you are outraged due to your own statements lol. I think it is ok to sell even those type I don't necessarily like or think helps people in the lodges and have a different view than you in this matter having previously said it helps the lodges earn income to support the rent etc. But Like you I don't like what they do now in the way they are doing it now. I am not a Theosophical Member so my view is unconsequential and counts as a big fat zero lol. But this forum is unmoderated and in America we can state our view without being buried to the neck and stoned to death, so I do , not very often, maybe once and not much a year. 

  Regards, 
  John 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" < global-theosophy@stofanet.dk > 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, May 8, 2009 5:19:45 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
  Subject: Re: Theos-World A CLEAR AND LOUD PROTEST - Business Networking? 

  Dear John 

  My views are: 

  Let us stick to the facts. My e-mail is a protest, and not an "outrage". 
  It is not polite to twist my words into something else. 

  Yes, but this page I mention ( http://theosophical.ning.com/group/spiritualbusinessnetworking ) clearly uses Dan Nogas name and photo similar to his name and photo at Theosophical Network - http://theosnet.ning.com. 

  Others members here at theos-talk are members at the forum of this place unless it is a total false hijack. In that case I am so sorry if I was mistaken in my views. 

  --- 
  Advertsing for the local miser is not quite theosophical. 
  Theosophical Network - http://theosnet.ning.com advertises for Wired Magazine on their frontpage. A Magazine which favourizes USA and not a global thinking-pattern. And the Magazine is nationalisticly much cheaper in USA. ( Wired (magazine) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wired_ (magazine)) 

  I am just saying this, so that the readers are aware of it, and will be able to draw their own conclusions. 

  M. Sufilight 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 11:19 PM 
  Subject: Re: Theos-World A CLEAR AND LOUD PROTEST - Business Networking? 

  Morten, 
  A funny thing happened on the way the the Forum (Zero Mostel aphorism lol). I clicked on the "Theosophical Society" on the page you are protesting about and It didn't go to Wheaton Home Page of the Theosophical Society. Why are you directing your outrage to Dan Noga???? This appears to be a "New Age Group" that possibly is "hijacking" the Theosophical Name. Theosophy never represented any part of itself as "New Age" as in the context of tarot card readers, palm readers, aura readers, psychic readers, clairevoyent readers, dowsers, prophets, new religion(s), old religions, whether for fee or free. It irkes me that some sources are pent upon pinning old superstitous populist dribble on H.P.B. and Theosophy. Oh, I forgot exorcists, cleansing professionals, demonologists, mediums, ghost catchers and chasers and hunters, devil worshippers, devil haters, angeologists, ufologists, reptilian paranoids. Wait!!! There is too much to list that is not or ever will be Theosophy! 

  Regards, 
  John 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" < global-theosophy@stofanet.dk > 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, May 8, 2009 8:45:50 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
  Subject: Theos-World A CLEAR AND LOUD PROTEST - Business Networking? 

  Dear readers 

  My views are: 

  A CLEAR AND LOUD PROTEST 

  I was recently notified about the following link and Business Networking. 

  Over at http://theosophical.ning.com/group/spiritualbusinessnetworking 
  H. P. Blavatsky and others are being used as if she and they was behind profitmaking Businesses. 

  I will have to protest to those of you who read this and tell the persons behind the idea - and manner of promotion, that it is not in accordance with the theosophical teachings I know, H. P. Blavatsky and the founders of TS was behind. 

  Turning the Blavatsky's teachings into something like that was not asked for when she lived. And I bet it is not even today. 

  I have mailed Dan Noga about this. 
  --- 

  I am not and will not promote money-making spiritism at the Masters doorstep. 

  M. Sufilight 

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