Theos-Talk Archives (May 2009 Message tt00151)

Dear Daniel,

Yes, if you perceive most elements of the WT project as infected with the 'messiah craze' then you're on reasonably solid ground to conclude that the whole project was concocted one way or the other. 

But I'm not sure whether you (or I for that matter) have carefully considered what the elements were and how they might be weighed. 

So far we've only focused on the public cult-side of the project and the possible mistakes by CWL and AB in setting it up. And even those we've only superficially glanced at. Maybe there is more than you allow yourself to perceive. 

The 'apostle affair' came from Arundale and AB made it public as she believed him to be connected to the Masters, which he was not. That was her mistake, and a pretty grave one, and big enough to have us reminded of KH's critique of her. In those days I think it was only K, CWL, Scott and Hodson who were connected. 

You can quote HPB to your heart's content, fact remains that she set the stage for the possibility of the appearance of a 'torch bearer of truth' and I'm sure just publishing that prophecy created in its wake many of the problems she warned for in her article on messiahs. I think that's just a side-effect to be expected and not necessarily an indication of inauthenticity. 

Govert



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: danielhcaldwell 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 12:47 PM
  Subject: Theos-World Re: Annie Besant on Her Messiah: Was this Part of the Messiah Craze?





  Govert, you write:

  ------------------------------------------------------
  The WT project in my view was genuine, but had some 'messiah craze' elements, inevitably so given the state of the human psyche. One of the 'craze' elements was indeed the 'apostle affair,' which neither CWL nor K believed in. It came from Arundale's 'crazed' brain.

  To reason from a few 'craze' elements to the conclusion that it was only 'craze' is as fallacious as reasoning from the belief that the project was genuine and that therefore all elements were genuine. 
  ----------------------------------------------------------

  Well, one might dispute your own claim that there were only a "few" crazed elements.

  It appears that almost all the elements were questionable if not crazed.

  All this focusing of attention and expectancy on one person --- in this case Krishnamurti -- brings out all the best of the crazed elements.

  Elevating anyone to such a elevated pedastal is bound to create such a craze.

  Too bad that both Annie Besant and C.W. Leadbeater didn't ponder long and hard and take to heart what their teacher H.P. Blavatsky had said about such things:

  "Mesmerisms and astral influences fall back, and the sky grows clear enough for higher light. It hushes the 'Lo here! and lo there!' and declares the Christ, like the kingdom of heaven, to be within. It guards and applies every aspiration and capacity to serve humanity in any man, and shows him how. It overthrows the giddy pedestal, and safely cares for the human being on solid ground. Hence, in this way, and in all other ways, it is the truest deliverer and saviour of our
  time."

  Did not the KH Letter of 1900 give Mrs. Besant sage advice:

  "Let the devotion and service be to that Supreme Spirit alone of which each one is a part." 

  Also too bad Mrs. Besant forgot and did not practice what the KH Letter told her in 1900:

  "You have for some time been under deluding influences.
  Shun pride, vanity and love of power. Be not guided
  by emotion but learn to stand alone. Be accurate and
  critical rather than credulous. The mistakes of the
  past in the old religions must not be glossed over
  with imaginary explanations...."

  You say the the delusion about the apostles "came from Arundale's 'crazed' brain."

  But here we find Mrs. Besant herself proclaiming to the whole world:

  "And now I have to give you, by COMMAND of the King, His message,
  and some of the messages of the Lord Maitreya and His great
  Brothers. . . what I am saying, as to matter of announcement, is
  definitely at THE COMMAND of the King whom I serve."

  If what you say is true about Arundale, it only shows that Mrs. Besant failed to take to heart and practice the advice of the 1900 letter which specificailly said to her:

  "You have for some time been under deluding influences. ...Be not guided by emotion but learn to stand alone. Be accurate and
  critical rather than credulous."

  Also I would say that contrary to what you maintain, CWL, AB and K were ALL responsible for dragging "the TS into a state of confusion and shock it has not yet overcome."

  Daniel
  http://hpb.cc

  --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Govert Schuller" <schuller@...> wrote:
  >
  > Daniel,
  > 
  > The WT project in my view was genuine, but had some 'messiah craze' elements, inevitably so given the state of the human psyche. One of the 'craze' elements was indeed the 'apostle affair,' which neither CWL nor K believed in. It came from Arundale's 'crazed' brain. 
  > 
  > To reason from a few 'craze' elements to the conclusion that it was only 'craze' is as fallacious as reasoning from the belief that the project was genuine and that therefore all elements were genuine. 
  > 
  > HPB's thoughts on messiahship are helpfull to be extremely cautious about such claims. CWL, AB and K lived up to it to a certain extent. In the end it was K who failed and dragged the TS into a state of confusion and shock it has not yet overcome. 
  > 
  > Govert
  > 
  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > From: danielhcaldwell 
  > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  > Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 11:21 AM
  > Subject: Theos-World Annie Besant on Her Messiah: Was this Part of the Messiah Craze?
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > Annie Besant on Her Messiah: Was this Part of the Messiah Craze? 
  > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
  > 
  > Annie Besant at her most eloquent best:
  > 
  > ----------------------------------------------------------
  > "And now I have to give you, by command of the King, His message,
  > and some of the messages of the Lord Maitreya and His great
  > Brothers. . . what I am saying, as to matter of announcement, is
  > definitely at the command of the King whom I serve.
  > 
  > His taking possession of His chosen vehicle . . . will be soon.
  > Then He will choose, as before, His twelve apostles . . . and their
  > chief, the Lord Himself. He has already chosen them, but I have only
  > the command to mention seven who have reached the stage of Arhatship...
  > 
  > The first two, my brother Charles Leadbeater and myself, . . . C.
  > Jinarajadasa, . . . George Arundale, Oscar Kollerstrom, . . . Rukmini
  > Arundale....
  > 
  > I left out one and must leave out another. Naturally, our
  > Krishnaji [Jiddu Krishnamurti] was one, but he is to be the vehicle
  > of the Lord. And the other is one who is very dear to all of us, as
  > to the whole Brotherhood: Bishop James Wedgwood. He had borne his
  > crucifixion before the seal of Arhatship was set upon him by his King.
  > Those are the first seven of the twelve whom He has chosen, with
  > Himself as the thirteenth. 'Ye call me Master and Lord, and ye do
  > well, for so I am.'
  > ----------------------------------------------------------
  > 
  > Daniel
  > http://hpb.cc
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >



  

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