Theos-Talk Archives (April 2009 Message tt00444)

When leaders keep going on even after committing serious errors as if
nothing has happened, what else is the solution.

Let us get a Theosophist from Japan as our leader. He would teach all of us
how to deal with failures.

MKR


On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 11:45 PM, <Drpsionic@aol.com> wrote:

>
>
> Mr. RAMADOSS! I'm shocked!
>
> And laughing my head off.
>
> No, I don't know anyone that can teach them harakiri, for which fact we
> must all be grateful or I might be tempted...
>
> I think all this is an interesting lesson in what happens to people when
> they want to be important.
>
> Chuck the Heretic
>
>
> In a message dated 4/28/2009 5:59:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> mkr777@gmail.com <mkr777%40gmail.com> writes:
>
> Hi All
> Thanks for the response, Katinka.
>
> As for theos-talk, all I have been doing is posting messages to the best of
> my ability. (Some may call it monologue; so be it!!!) Theos-talk is the
> only
> forum that we have to deal with the administrative issues. There is no
> other
> way to distribute information and opinions and objections on issues and
> developments, since from time to time there is a conflict of interests
> between the leadership and the members and the organization and the Cause.
> Other than our time, it is free to post msgs here.
>
> As I had already mentioned earlier, Katinka has done a wonderful job in the
> cyberspace at this young age. We all should be thankful to her for what she
> has done. We can expect much more in the future, since the future medium of
> action is cyberspace. (Are leaders listening?)
>
> Only few of us, by Karma, are positioned to take up theosophical work
> full-time. I am recalling the incident regarding Helen Zahara, years ago.
> She was trained as Chartered Accountant and was keen on working full-time
> for TS. CJ who was President at that time, told her that TS does not have
> funds to pay her compensation she can command in business. Hence, he told
> her to go out and work in the business and after having saved enough, come
> back to TS and work full-time. She followed his advise. As her Karma
> decided, she died couple of years after she started working full time for
> TS
> and she was still young and was in prime of her life. I expect that in
> Katinkaâs future, there would come a time when she is financially
> self-sufficient that she can work full time for TS.
>
> Coming to TS events since early last year. Many leaders around the world
> have taken some missteps. We all make mistakes. What is more important is t
> o
> quickly recognize the mistakes early and acknowledge the mistakes and move
> to fix them quickly. It needs a lot of wisdom and courage to identify the
> mistakes and own them and apologize for the mistakes. We can take a lesson
> from the Japanese. We have seen many leaders, publicly acknowledge mistakes
> and even kill themselves (Harakiri! We can find some swords if needed from
> our Japanese friends!). Chuck, do you know some sources? (Just kidding) I
> am not suggesting our leaders should kill themselves for their mistakes.
>
> Once the errors and mistakes are recognized and aggressive steps taken to
> fix them, membership is usually generous and forgiving. When this is not
> done, the average member sees the hypocrisy and the reputation of leader
> and
> membersâ trust in the leaders take a downfall drip drip and drip.
>
> One of the most unique things about TS is the total autonomy of the lodges
> and the sections in their activities. For example, when I lived in India,
> if
> you ask the lodge members who the National Secretary is, 9 out of 10 would
> not know. This is because there is practically no interference from the
> top.
>
> This autonomous setup allows each lodge and section to come up with their
> own activities using the local ingenuity to fit into local culture and
> societal needs. While much noise was created last year about the rules and
> regulations and hair splitting went on, rules and regulations have no
> effect
> on how dynamic a lodge or a section is. Rules do not bring in members or
> retain them. It is the activities, that does.
>
> Again, I think at our lodge and section levels, we need to brainstorm and
> come up with some creative activities which would draw the attention of the
> world around them. If anyone thinks I am wrong, I want to hear from them.
>
> MKR
>
> THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN TRUTH
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Katinka Hesselink <
> _mail@katinkahesselimail@k_ (mailto:mail@katinkahesselink.net<mail%40katinkahesselink.net>)
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > MKR - did you miss the wink I'd put in there ;) ? But seriously, I do
> think
> > you have place of informal leadership here on theos-talk at least. And
> I've
> > personally learned a lot from you.
> >
> > My name does seem to be mentioned a lot in regard to leadership roles -
> but
> > there is a very good practical reason why it's not my time: I can't
> afford
> > to put my life on hold for full time volunteer work right now, nor in the
> > foreseeable future. There is a very practical reason why our leaders are
> > mostly retired: how else can they do the work? Unless there's a working
> > partner of course with a very good income.
> >
> > As for Betty - I think it's pretty clear to most observers that she's
> made
> > some serious mistakes.
> >
> > I don't think though that a formal investigation would help. Individual
> > sections just need to get on with the work of getting in touch with the
> > world of spirituality & responding to the main challenges of our time.
> And
> > to some extent they are doing so. The TSA has founded an active online
> forum
> > & had great brainstorm sessions apparently at Krotona. The next step of
> > course is to put all that into action locally as well as online.
> >
> > Activities have to be rethought very seriously - how can a balance be
> found
> > between serious theosophical lectures and programs that fit the general
> > spiritually interested public we'd also like to attract? What themes are
> we
> > not addressing at all, despite the fact that they belong to the central
> > topics theosophists study and think about? And so on.
> >
> > En Martin: dat liedje hoor ik al mijn hele leven :)
> >
> > Katinka
> > _http://www.allconsihttp://www._ (http://www.allconsidering.com/)
> > _http://www.katinkahhttp://wwhttp_ (http://www.katinkahesselink.net/)
> > _http://www.overpeinhttp://ww_ (http://www.overpeinzende.nl/)
> >
> > --- In _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com<theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>)
>
> <theos-talk%theos-talk%<WBthe>, Martin
> > <Mvandertak@Mva> wrote:
> > >
> > > I agree, Katinka for president!
> > >
> > > ( Kleine kokette Katinka
> > > Kijk nou eens een keertje om
> > > Stiekempjes over je schouder
> > > Je ma ziet het toch niet dus kom
> > > Kleine kokette Katinka
> > > Ben je verlegen misschien
> > > We willen zo graag nog heel even
> > > Een glimp van je wipneusje zien )
> > >
> > > --- On Mon, 4/27/09, MKR <mkr777@...> wrote:
> > > From: MKR <mkr777@...>
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: ??? MORAL LEADERSHIP ??? online
> > communication
> > > To: _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com<theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>)
>
> <theos-talk%theos-talk%<WBthe>
>
> > > Date: Monday, April 27, 2009, 2:53 PM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I have to strongly disagree, being mentioned along with Joy and John. I
> > am
> > >
> > > too far away from that high level.
> > >
> > > I am simply a messenger and an ordinary member. (Never held any
> position
> > in
> > >
> > > TS admin and nor planning to.) My only contribution is to post some
> > messages
> > >
> > > on theos-talk. I would say Katinka should be included in the list since
> > she
> > >
> > > has contributed a lot in cyberspace over the years giving a good
> feedback
> > on
> > >
> > > the various issues and providing valuable reference material.
> > >
> > > MKR
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 7:10 AM, Katinka Hesselink <
> > >
> > > mail@katinkahesseli nk.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > There's formal leadership (Radha, Betty, Kim Dieu) and informal
> > leadership
> > >
> > > > (Joy Mills, John Algeo, MKR ;) ). When leadership fails people look
> to
> > the
> > >
> > > > informal leaders. If they don't choose to step in, that's their
> > prerogative.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> **************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the
> web. Get the Radio Toolbar!
> (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003)
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]