Re: Theos-World Who Master Morya really are?
Apr 12, 2009 04:34 AM
by Morten Nymann Olesen
Dear Martin and friends
My views are:
So you have never heard of H. P. Blavatsky?
So I understand, that you do not find it important to seek to end the strifes among the worlds major religions in seach and enquiry about the truth of life and the wisdom it might contain?
So I understand, that you suggest, that one aught to throw the theosophical teachings down the toilet and say that something like the existence Mahatmas - spiritually evolved humans - is something H. P. Blavatsky and 25 other persons just imagnied or that they only are half truths - even if evidence clearly says the opposite? And which later persons claimed to have meet?
And that the whole theosophical idea was build on false thoughts, and only half truths and promote the view that it and its thoughts about a Himalayan Lodge is and was trash?
- - -
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: Martin
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Who Master Morya really are?
Sure:
You wrote:
"Now. Let us not be sidetracked.
Are you also aiming at telling me and others that the Master Morya was
build on the personality named Ranbir Singh, and that the Masters was
invented by H. P. Blavatsky, even if the invention might be proven
false several times? And continue to do something as ugly as that even
if you know, that you are promoting a lie?"
>I don't know any Morya nor Blavatsky; I do know there were and are people with those names of whom I read some texts, but I never met them and therefore don't know them.
I don't promote lies therefore about people I do not know, there is no gain in there for anyone.
The ugliness I see is that the world we live in now is for a part based on the half truths revealed by these people, which were not understood by humanity and by seemingly wishfull thinking have led to the killing of millions of people in the last century.
Karma or not, these causes among others have lead to the means, while I promote the opposite: Intuition means: Tuition from in (side), from your creator, your real Self and not some master, priest, guru...
--- On Sun, 4/12/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> wrote:
From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk>
Subject: Re: Theos-World Who Master Morya really are?
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, April 12, 2009, 12:32 PM
Allright.
But answering my questions in the end of the e-mail you will not?
----- Original Message -----
From: Martin
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Who Master Morya really are?
Let it rest, ok with me :o)
--- On Sun, 4/12/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk> wrote:
From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
Subject: Re: Theos-World Who Master Morya really are?
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Sunday, April 12, 2009, 12:06 PM
Dear Martin
My views are:
1.
Martin wrote:
"I could be a complete opposite of what you think of me, since I go with the flow, everyday gives me a different personality? "
M. Sufilight answers:
Yes, that is true. It is better to let it rest, if you ask me.
Be assured, that I might err in losing direction in my search after intuition or "intuition". And yet be assured, that I am in a continuous search after it, and that I do not claim myself to be infallible. :-)
2.
Martin asked:
"It just happens that this world ís a world of lies and ugly things...why do you think those masters didn't do a thing about massacres in Africa but observe it ( see MH )?"
M. Sufilight answers:
This is not about the issue I was concerned with in my e-mail.
But since you ask. There is a Law called the Law of Karma. It is touched upon in book named "The Key to Theosophy" (p. 201-215).
I just e-mailed quotations two or three letters from HPB to A. P. Sinnett giving an answer to the trouble the Masters had with Olcott and others wanting to build a Temple Shrine showing the two Masters portraits. This might help you by analogical thinking to understand why Master cannot interfer in Africa. The Master do not make any unwilling slave. :-)
3.
Martin wrote:
"It is not my world, I just happen to be here and could leave anytime be it by dead or any other means. There is no gain for me to be and stay here...
Lastly: I do not exclude anyone in friendship, since even your enemies can teach and thus free you ..."
M. Sufilight answers:
You are sort of living in the world are you not?
And you sort of live in the forum world until you leave it do you not?
Yes. And by constrast alone we will be able to appreciate the true value of things.
But too much contrast, and you will ruin the portrait, will you not?
- - -
Now. Let us not be sidetracked.
Are you also aiming at telling me and others that the Master Morya was build on the personality named Ranbir Singh, and that the Masters was invented by H. P. Blavatsky, even if the invention might be proven false several times? And continue to do something as ugly as that even if you know, that you are promoting a lie?
Yet I have no intentions on forcing my opinion upon you.
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: Martin
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Who Master Morya really are?
Lol, I am not about helping ( I don't even know a guy called Morya ), just showing concern, and being a buddha is not my goal in life. I am just ahead in what I feel is being started...
I wonder though what makes you think you know a bit about me but the typed words I have put on the web. I could be a complete opposite of what you think of me, since I go with the flow, everyday gives me a different personality?
It just happens that this world ís a world of lies and ugly things...why do you think those masters didn't do a thing about massacres in Africa but observe it ( see MH )?
It is not my world, I just happen to be here and could leave anytime be it by dead or any other means. There is no gain for me to be and stay here...
Lastly: I do not exclude anyone in friendship, since even your enemies can teach and thus free you ...
--- On Sun, 4/12/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk> wrote:
From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
Subject: Re: Theos-World Who Master Morya really are?
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Sunday, April 12, 2009, 9:33 AM
Dear Martin and friends
My views are:
I wonder who you are seeking to help Martin. Master Morya?
Martin wrote:
"why do you think you can defend the Masters and the Theosophical teachings?"
M. Sufilight answers:
Why not?
I have already raised my voice in protest, just as well as others do.
Repeating a protest is a part of the theosophical activities. People often forget, what they already have learned or get in doubt - and start to promote books like "The Masters Revealed: Madame Blavatsky and the Myth of the Great White Lodge" and calling the Himalayian Lodge a mere MYTH. New-comers aught to know about the issue I mentioned in my e-mail. "Oldtimers" at this forum need to know about it as well, because - allowing - the promotion of attacks on the theosophical cause and its founders, and allowing spoon-feeding our enemies or newcomers to follow a wrong path, - without further notice, - is most certainly NOT what the object of the theosophical teachings are about - not to mention the various Theosophical groups teachings.
After all we are NOT Seekers after LIES are we?
There is no Religion Higher than Truth.
Martin wrote:
"Don't you think a chela has other things to do than stick his neck out for people who are much more powerfull to defend themselves far better?"
M. Sufilight answers:
So you are saying that protesting against - proven - injustice on behalf of ones friends and the wisdom teachings of all ages past is a waste of time?
Martin wrote:
Or did your master tell you to do so?
M. Sufilight answers:
As I said. My heart told me to do so.
Yet I have consulted with other persons than you about it. I do not hope, that I have offended you.
Martin wrote:
"If theosophy is just presented as "half truth"( read MH ), don't you think you should start using your intuïtion as KH advises?"
M. Sufilight answers:
If it was not because I know a bit about who you are, I would have consider such a question to be flippant or similar. Now I only consider it to be an emotional reaction on your part.
Martin wrote:
"The way you present yourself glows in fanatism, although I am sure you are not a fanatic, however communicating with different cultures needs cunning and a lot of humor."
M. Sufilight answers:
I would like to know where the fanatical part is in all my presentation?
I find that we theosophists are Seekers after Truth and not dogma.
Is truth fanatical?
Martin wrote:
"Don't take everything too serious, even Johnson is actually asking for clearity in his books"
M. Sufilight answers:
It does not really matter if KPJ asks for clearity on his thesis. The end result is that he has published a book "The Masters Revealed" about the theosophical teachings of all ages past - which from its initial beginning have as its thesis to prove that the TS was and is nothing but trash.
- Such an attack has of course not gone unnoticed by me and other theosophists. - He has revealed himself allright. He has several times been told, that his books are false in content and thesis, and constitutes a nasty attack. Yet, despite of that he continous to reveal his intentions by keep selling and officially promoting that nasty book in public and on the Internet, without showing any sign of regret. No regret about falsely calling Master Morya by the name Ranbir Singh. No regret about plastering a false thesis upon H. P. Blavatsky claiming her masters was a mere phantasy etc. etc. He just carries on selling his books and thereby viciously attacks the TS, the Masters reputations as well as H. P. Blavatskys. - And newcomers should now about it.
Martin wrote:
"Buddha didn't make a mystery about Himself, he just walked the earth for everyone to see and talk to. He was not afraid people would suffer because of His presence, nor was He afraid of bad smell, food or drink. He was wise in all 3 worlds, so they couldn't affect Him anymore but the beings living in those worlds suffering from them. He was friends with drunks and tramps, with villains and murderers just because he could see the same principle in everyone and everything."
M. Sufilight answers:
And you are thereby telling me that you are Buddha?
I am friends with people if I in my heart have them as friends
I am not friends with people if I guide them along the false path of lies and deceit.
I have now told all of you and KPJ incluced what is wrong to do. I do hope, that you will abstain from doing wrong deeds.
- - -
But some how I hear Martin say:
Do not mind, do not matter. Let people lie and do all kinds of ugly activities they want to.
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: Martin
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 1:22 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Who Master Morya really are?
Dear Morten:
why do you think you can defend the Masters and the Theosophical teachings?
Don't you think a chela has other things to do than stick his neck out for people who are much more powerfull to defend themselves far better?
Or did your master tell you to do so?
If theosophy is just presented as "half truth"( read MH ), don't you think you should start using your intuïtion as KH advises?
The way you present yourself glows in fanatism, although I am sure you are not a fanatic, however communicating with different cultures needs cunning and a lot of humor.
Don't take everything too serious, even Johnson is actually asking for clearity in his books...Buddha didn't make a mystery about Himself, he just walked the earth for everyone to see and talk to. He was not afraid people would suffer because of His presence, nor was He afraid of bad smell, food or drink. He was wise in all 3 worlds, so they couldn't affect Him anymore but the beings living in those worlds suffering from them. He was friends with drunks and tramps, with villains and murderers just because he could see the same principle in everyone and everything.
So Morten, take a look at your attitude and you may make lots of friends, the ones you claim you are friends with already...
All the best from a friend :-)
--- On Sat, 4/11/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk> wrote:
From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
Subject: Theos-World Who Master Morya really are?
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Saturday, April 11, 2009, 9:04 PM
Dear friends
My views are:
The following might be interesting to read.
David Pratt a long time theosophist is behind the below article or book.
Some of you might be interested in reading it.
"The Theosophical Mahatmas - A Critique of Paul Johnson's New Myth - by David Pratt
September 1997"
http://ourworld. compuserve. com/homepages/ dp5/johnson. htm
Here are few minor excerpts to let you know about what some of us theosophist think about K. Paul Johnson's books about The Masters Morya and KH, and various other theosophists, some of the honest and compassionate chelas.
K. Paul Johnson wrote in his The Masters Revealed:
"Johnson claims that the "primary prototype" for KH was Thakar Singh Sadhanwalia, a Sikh aristocrat, who was one of the founders the Singh Sabha, a Punjabi Sikh reform organization. Master M was supposedly modelled mainly on Ranbir Singh, the Maharaja of Kashmir. Johnson also suggests historical identifications for Djual Kul (Dayal Singh), the Chohan (Baba Khem Singh Bedi), Serapis (Paulos Metamon), Tuitit Bey (Max Theon), and Hilarion (Ooton Liatto). Narayan and one or two other masters have so far been spared "identification" . This paper takes a critical look at Johnson's theory, concentrating on Masters M and KH. "
"Johnson admits that the links he perceives between KH and Thakar Singh and between M and Ranbir Singh are extremely tenuous and inconclusive (for a summary of his evidence, see Gnat). There is not a single piece of convincing evidence to support his "identifications" , only a few scraps of circumstantial and coincidental evidence. In the words of John Algeo: "Johnson's 'evidence' consists of a few general similarities, some coincidences of place and time, and a strong desire to prove a thesis" (Theosophical History, July 1995, p. 245). "
"Numerous details about M and KH and events in their lives are reported in theosophical literature that could not have involved or been based on Ranbir Singh or Thakar Singh. But Johnson does not regard such information as counter-evidence; indeed, he believes it is "naive" to do so. Instead, he either says that some other candidate for M or KH may have been involved in such cases, or he dismisses such details as irrelevant, fictitious, or deliberate disinformation. His basic position is therefore unfalsifiable and must be classed as a dogma rather than a testable hypothesis."
An important character in HPB's largely fictional travelogue From the Caves and Jungles of Hindostan is Gulab Lal Singh, the Rajput ruler of a small central Indian state, who is depicted as possessing occult powers, and as the main companion of HPB and Olcott on their adventures. He is clearly based in part on Morya. Gulab Singh was also the name of the father of Ranbir Singh, the Maharaja of Kashmir, and Johnson believes that HPB's use of the name Gulab Lal Singh supports his "identification" of M with Ranbir Singh.* He points out that Gulab Singh was "notorious for abuse of power and cruelty" ("The Masters Revealed" p. 128)
And here I will stop quoting.
I wonder if the theosophical seekers reading this understands the end results and implications, such a fraudulent attack by K. P. Johnson upon one of the most wise Himalayan Masters.
I say:
Master Morya cannot in NO manner what so ever have been Ranbir Singh. Because a Master of visdom and compassionwould not act like Ranbir Singh was said to have been acting.
I said this just to let the Seekers after Truth know about these attacks by K. Paul Johnson of the theosophical teachings. - But also to let you know, that I know about this Master in my own private way. And I find K. Paul Johnsons book a vissious attack upon the wisdom teachings of all ages past - the theosophical teachings, where The Theosophical Society was the beginning cornerstone for the future Wisdom-Religion to come in this Maha-Manvantara.
I am talking out of my own knowledge. Others may do the same.
Yet talking out of my own knowledge, I also remain humble, because I am by no means an advanced chela, and my clairvoyant capabilities might fail me. Yet I have now written, what my heart had to say to you.
And let me state so there should be no doubt about it. I am by no means attacking K. Paul Johnsons person although he might feel inclined to think so for reasons unknown to me. - I am quite on the contrary seeking to defend the wisdom teachings and the Masters good name and reputation from an attack. And other attack by K. Paul Johnson could be dealt with in a similar manner.
- - -
I was seeking to write something similar at the new forum named "The Theosophical Network" - http://www.theosoph y.net/ - but was because of some misunderstandings prohibited to do so. The named forum - claims - that the "essential nature of our network is theosophical" and to seek to accomplish the three objects of The Theosophical Society.
The three objects:
1) To form a nucleus of the Universal Brotherhood of Humanity, without distinction of race, creed, sex, caste, or color.
2) To encourage the comparative study of religion, philosophy, and science.
3) To investigate unexplained laws of nature and the powers latent in humanity.
- - -
H. P. Blavatsky added in The Key to Theosophy, p. 16, 1889:
"The Theosophical Society was organized for the purpose of promulgating the Theosophical doctrines, and for the promotion of the Theosophic life. "
http://www.phx- ult-lodge. org/aKEY. htm
I think I will let the members of both the above mentioned forum and this one reach their own conclusions - about what kind of Universal Brotherhood they seek. But I would not promote and buy that book "The Masters Revealed", just like H. P. Blavatsky would not in her day promote the book by E. Hardinge Britten: "Art Magic" (http://www.phx- ult-lodge. org/aKEY. htm )
M. Sufilight
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