Theos-Talk Archives (April 2009 Message tt00043)

Let me add a few points.

I have been active in many online groups since pre-Internet days when we had
BBS bulletin boards. For a newbees, these forums are somewhat threatening
and many times, I have found newbees posting initial msgs in a rather very
deferential tone not wanting to hurt anyone. In due course of time, we learn
how to go along with the flow even in highly controversial issues. So long
as we deal with issues, and not attacking individuals, subscribers seem not
to mind.

>From time to time, one issue that raises its head is when someone,
especially one well known in the community tries to use trick of using
someone else as a means of engaging in discussions because they want to keep
their hands clean. Why anyone wants to get used as a catâs paw by any one
else, it is very difficult to fathom. Usually many here will see thru the
this tactic even though they may not openly accuse the surreptitious action.
I am not refererring to anyone mentioned in this msg thread.

MKR


On 4/3/09, Govert Schuller <schuller@alpheus.org> wrote:
>
>   Dear Morten,
>
> In reciprocated friendliness.
>
> I did state that your questions are relevant, but I just wanted to give Mr.
> Fisher the space to address the issues he came to address.
>
> I hope that Katinka answered your questions meanwhile, though she forgot
> #8.
>
> I apologize for trying to close (temporarily and only within a certain
> context) your mouth.
>
> My remarks might have been slightly overstated, and I probably reacted from
> the following perspective: this list is known amongst my Adyar friends to be
> relatively hostile to Adyarites and especially its past leadership. I have
> to concur to a certain degree and see that probably indeed Adyar Bhaktis
> might not survive any third degree grilling by ULT/Pasadena Jainis,
> especially those who are very dedicated to HPB and seem to emulate her
> polemical style. Maybe only heretics like Chuck, MKR, Anand, others and
> myself find a niche here to dialogue from. Others, who might have less
> calice on their soul and oumpf in their discourse, might indeed not fare
> well here and decide just to see what's happening without risking getting
> verbally crunched or getting whole articles, paragraphs and quotes by HPB
> thrown at them, however well meant and relevant. They might want to
> contribute, but they don't. I'm not saying there is no respect, but there
> are definitely insensitivities the effects of which we might not be
> conscious of, myself included as both perpetrator and receiver. So, from
> that perspective I reacted to your list of questions and perceived them to
> be at least problematic. Relevant, yes, but maybe too much 'in your face.' I
> hope I have made myself clear enough to at least have appelaed to the more
> gentle side of all participants here.
>
> Govert
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Morten Nymann Olesen
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 11:11 AM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar - The Truth Unveiled
>
> Dear Govert and all
>
> My views are:
>
> In all friendliness...
>
> I think that will be the day, when Keith will be scared by questions asked
> by an email.
> Do you not agree?
>
> And I do not find my questions to be of a "HPB-fundamentalist" kind as you
> seem to imply. Maybe you would care to explain what made you reach such a
> conclusion about my questions?
>
> And I find I have every right to put my - highly relevant - questions,
> which indeed are coming from the Heart seeking to be of help, without being
> asked to close my mouth by you. Do you not agree?
>
> So I have my views and they are appearntly not the same as yours in this
> particular situation.
> Please, do not misunderstand me. I am only seeking the truth about the
> matters.
>
> M. Sufilight
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Govert Schuller
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 12:07 AM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar - The Truth Unveiled
>
> Dear Morten,
>
> (Tongue-in-cheeck, ok?)
>
> I do see the relevance of your questions from your anti-Adyar pov, but,
> please do not scare Mr. Fisher away with HPB-fundamentalist questions that
> have no bearing on the issues which he volunteers to cover, which are, in
> his words, the "untruthful, inaccurate statements posted on the TS American
> website, regarding Adyar and the General Council Meeting in December,
> including the venomous, destructive statements emanating from New Zealand."
>
> I propose to let MKR take the lead. Anyone seconding?
>
> Best
>
> Govert
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Morten Nymann Olesen
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 2:11 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar - The Truth Unveiled
>
> Dear Keith
>
> My views are:
>
> Thanks a lot. That is as far as I am concerned a good e-mail.
>
> I have tons of questions to ask.
> But I will try to narrow it down to a "few".
>
> Maybe you find my questions to be a bit off topic.
> But think, that if you relate them to the words in your e-mail, you will
> find that they could be relevant give an answer.
>
> 1. What core teachings are today followed in TS Adyar, when compared to the
> days when H. P. Blavatsky lived? And have those changes been created in
> accordance with the original programe given by HPB and the Masters? Or are
> they more in accordance with for instance J. Krishnamurtis or C. W.
> Leadbeaters views?
>
> 2. Are TS today following the view given by HPB on the importance to
> protest against deviations from the theosophical teachings by the use of the
> Theosophical magazines or similar medias?
>
> 3. Have TS changed its views upon the - level of - rejection of dogma and
> Christianity and Islam since HPB left the physical world? And to what degree
> or level?
>
> 4. Is God a "he" and/ or a physical being as most a great number of
> theosophical books on sale tells us? Are one required to believe in J.
> Krishnamurti as a World Teacher today? And if not, how can that be
> reconciled with the fact that TS are selling books about him?
>
> 5. Can TS leaders today imagine persons who have been victims of child
> abuse to feel themselves to be WELL-comed and happy members of the TS? And
> if yes, how is that to come about, when everyone talks negatively about C.
> W. Leabeaters past supposed sexually related "deeds" or activities? And if
> so, how can that be reconciled with the fact that TS today are selling books
> written by C. W. Leadbeater?
>
> 6. How are TS today relating to issues like UFOs, Cropcirlcles ("present
> day Mahatma Letters"?), and the so-called "Disclosure Project", while not
> being involved with Political activity?
>
> 7. Are any TS leaders today claiming to be in contact with the Masters like
> in the old days of TS?
>
> 8. Are the TS today succeding in the aim given by HPB to end the strife
> among various religions? (See The Key to Theosophy, p. 2-3.) If not why not,
> do you think?
>
> Some of these question have maybe been answered somewhere before.
> But I find them to be forwarded in various ways almost similar or relating
> very much to the above written by me, by a lot of persons on the Internet.
>
> I will leave it up to you if you want to answer any of these questions.
> Silence is of course also an answer.
> - - -
>
> H. P. Blavatsky wrote the article: "IS DENUNCIATION A DUTY?"
> http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v10/y1888_091.htm
>
> It was said: There is no religion higher than Truth.
>
> - - -
> About me:
> I have since childhood been a student of the theosophical teachings.
> In my view: Atma=Brahman.
>
> M. Sufilight
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: keith_fisher@ymail.com <keith_fisher%40ymail.com>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:11 PM
> Subject: Theos-World TS Adyar - The Truth Unveiled
>
> Dear Friends
>
> I returned from the Theosophical Society in Adyar on
> 1 March 2009 after serving a six months term as the
> International Secretary. A critical situation arose in
> August last year on the surprise resignation of the
> Secretary, and I was asked to drop my life to take up the
> position for a short length of time. I agreed to do a six
> month term and was appointed on 1 September 2008.
>
> Since returning home I have had time to read the untruthful,
> inaccurate statements posted on the TS American website,
> regarding Adyar and the General Council Meeting in December,
> including the venomous, destructive statements emanating
> from New Zealand.
>
> This disgraceful situation needs addressing, as many TS members
> naturally place trust in their elected section leaders.
>
> I now find myself in the unique position of knowing the truth
> of these matters while holding no official position in the
> Theosophical Society, except that I am an Australian member.
>
> I would therefore, like to offer my services to members of the
> group who would like to know the truth. I do not wish to enter
> into lengthy dialogue, but I am willing to answer any sensible
> questions, truthfully, and to the best of my ability.
>
> Best wishes
> Keith Fisher
>
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