Theos-Talk Archives (February 2009 Message tt00214)

Dear Sampsa,

Leaving K & the Masters aside, the following on the question of Nazism:

My esoteric interpretation of the rise and fall of Nazi Germany is based on the idea of trying to connect spiritual developments with historical ones and is premised on some of the positions that, to me, look reasonable. So, from my pov, Steiner was a factor in both prepraring the way for and opposing the Nazis. Steiner's early opposition to the World Teacher Project (for which the German TS section lost its charter) and the founding of his own society were big factors in blocking the beneficial influence of that WT project to have effect on the German people. And the influence Steiner and the anthroposophists could have had in opposing Hitler was diminished by their being chased out of Germany as I belief the story that some occult Nazis were aware that Steiner was monitoring on inner levels what the occult Nazis were up to and was possibly opposing them. And once Steiner had set up shop in Switzerland, I do belief it highly probable that the burning down of his first Goetheneum was done by German agents working for the Nazis. So, with neither the TS, OSE or Steiner's AS very active in Germany; with a populace beaten down by the depression, the 'shame' of Versaille and other economic-social-psychological factors; and with, and this point is most important, an expectation on an inner spiritual level for an 'avataric' event unleashed by the WT project, it becomes, from an esoteric pov, understandable that this highly dangerous symbiosis developed between the Germans and Hitler and his Nazis as the latter promised the former, and sometimes delivered, a solution to both its inner and outer turmoil. I also think that a contributing factor was the failure of the WT project as it just confused on inner levels people's understanding of what to expect, which diminished further the capacity of the Gemans (and other people throughout the world) to see through the machinations of the Nazis. On top of it all you have to get a sense of how much support the Nazis also received from some big international bankers and semi-secret societies as documented by many researchers, but conveniently covered up. So, in short, the WT project and its failure, Steiner's wrecking of the German TS section and the psycho-political machinations of an international cabal, were all factors in creating this spiritual vacuum in Germany of which the occult Nazis took advantage. 

Govert



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: sampsakuukasjarvi 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 6:04 PM
  Subject: Theos-World Re: Theosophy and Phenomenology


  Dear Govert,

  I think you perhaps don't take account that antroposophy, instead of 
  theosophy of the Theosophical Society (Adyar), was very big in 
  Germany since 1913, i.e. before the rise of Hitler. So the failed 
  Krishnamurti case (or "project" or whatever) with its messiah 
  expectations didn't matter very much in Germany. For me there was no 
  spiritual vacuum where Nazism could enter.

  I also think that you don't show enough criticism towards 
  theosophical fancies on the Masters since about 1895 and especially 
  since 1907 (Besant's time). I am assured that there is a brotherhood 
  of Dark Brothers, who tries to mislead truth seekers. After HPB, I 
  believe, Dark Brothers gave some deceiving, and the consequences were 
  that the main direction of the TS went astray from the teaching of 
  self-realization to worshipping outer authorities and imaging 
  initiations. The same happened also in the US in the TS Pasadena 
  (which organization, of course, had different names then) and in The 
  Temple of the People (which also waited for an avatar). I don't 
  either believe in later Master messages given by Guy Ballard, Mark L. 
  Prophet and others, who you seem to believe in strongly. My argument 
  is that those teachers, who continue the old CWL direction by talking 
  about initiations and personal Masters who come to us as we call 
  them, have not learned the essential lesson that Krishnamurti gave: 
  know thyself.

  HPB said that the world teacher will come after year 1975. So I don't 
  believe that Krishnamurti was him. He gave important lessons, but 
  much before 1975. There is a general belief in theosophical circles 
  in Finland where I live that the world teacher is a collective, the 
  new age, or the dalai-lama.

  I know German and I think that nobody should read Heidegger in other 
  languages but in German.

  Just my ideas. I shall answer your Krishnamurti criticism when I have 
  enough time.

  Sampsa

  --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Govert Schuller" <schuller@...> 
  wrote:
  >
  > Dear Nigel,
  > 
  > Thanks for your understanding and encouragement.
  > 
  > The report/article onphenomenology I referred to is titled:
  > 
  > "The Relevance of Phenomenology for Theosophy" and can be found at:
  > 
  > http://alpheus.org/html/articles/philosophy/phen&theos.htm
  > 
  > The section on Heidegger might be a little dense as is the subject 
  matter itself. One day I hope to explain better the relevance of 
  Heidegger. I did post an article 
  > "Heideggerian Thinking and the Eastern Mind" by Rolf von 
  Eckartsberg and Ronald S. Valle, from: Metaphors of Consciousness. 
  > http://alpheus.org/tsclass/MHandEast.pdf
  > 
  > This article might get somewhere in wetting Theosophists' appetite 
  for the 'sage of the black forest.' 
  > 
  > Maybe also more on Popper one day. A title for that might be: "The 
  Refutation of the Refutation of the Conjecture Called Theosophy." 
  > 
  > Best
  > 
  > Govert



  

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