Theos-Talk Archives (February 2009 Message tt00196)

"Spinning my head is spinning"
 
Chuck the Heretic
 
 
In a message dated 2/14/2009 1:58:19 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
schuller@alpheus.org writes:

 
 
 
Dear Nigel,

Thanks for your understanding and  encouragement.

The report/article onphenomenology I referred to is  titled:

"The Relevance of Phenomenology for Theosophy" and can be found  at:

_http://alpheus.http://alhttp://alhttp://alphhttp&theos.the_ 
(http://alpheus.org/html/articles/philosophy/phen&theos.htm) 

The  section on Heidegger might be a little dense as is the subject matter 
itself.  One day I hope to explain better the relevance of Heidegger. I did post 
an  article 
"Heideggerian Thinking and the Eastern Mind" by Rolf von  Eckartsberg and 
Ronald S. Valle, from: Metaphors of Consciousness. 
_http://alpheus.http://alphehttp://alphtt_ 
(http://alpheus.org/tsclass/MHandEast.pdf) 

This  article might get somewhere in wetting Theosophists' appetite for the 
'sage of  the black forest.' 

Maybe also more on Popper one day. A title for that  might be: "The 
Refutation of the Refutation of the Conjecture Called  Theosophy." 

Best

Govert

----- Original Message -----  
From: nhcareyta 
To: _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com)   
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 1:13 AM
Subject: Theos-World Re: 4th  sub-race

Dear Govert

Thank you for your most interesting,  explanatory response.

You write, "Actually, my position is that all  statements are 
provisional and relative to an interpretive  framework."

Yes agreed, indeed they must be, given the complexities and  
distortions of perception and epistemological definitions. 
Hard and  fast "absolutes" are perhaps in fact a little 
tenuous.

You write,  "I'm just very interested to get an understanding 
of the epistemological  issues involved in the development and 
transmission of the Masters'  teachings. The issue of 
contradictions, blinds, traps, translation and  other 
structures are part of that."

>From my experience, this can be  so valuable, almost 
indispensable. 
Some time ago on this forum, I was  extolling the virtues of 
studying epistemology as somewhat essential, if  only to assess 
our particular mindset with its prejudices, predispositions  
and motivations. So many of us provide our opinions, based 
simply on  what feels good to ourselves. 
The Mahatmas and Madame Blavatsky provided  occult, mystical, 
revealed, rational and empirical information for  variously 
different concepts. 

You write, "Since HPB western  philosophy has made some 
good progress in certain areas, especially  philosophy of 
science and phenomenology. I just like to put those  
insights into play in the theosophical field and see how 
far they go.  I did report on the relevance of phenomenology 
for  theosophy...f

I would be most interested to read that report if at  all 
possible?

You write, "...and would like to do something similar  with 
philosophy of science, especially the contributions from 
Popper,  Kuhn, Feyerabend and Bohm."

A particularly interesting field of study,  best wishes for 
your investigations.

Regards
Nigel

>  If you will, I like to boost the philosophical part of the tri-
partite  synthesis of philosophy, science and spirituality. 
> 
>  Govert
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----  
> From: nhcareyta 
> To: _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com)   
> Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 3:41 AM
> Subject: Theos-World  Re: 4th sub-race
> 
> 
> Dear Govert
> 
> Thank  you for your response and insightful possibilities.
> 
> There are  many passages where the Mahatmas and Madame 
> Blavatsky deal with this  thorny subject and I actually 
> prefer to use the word mystery, rather  than dichotomy 
> or even contradiction.
> 
> From my  perspective, the teachings on globes, rounds, 
> chains and races are  profoundly occult and not necessarily 
> intended to be accepted quite  so literally and uncritically, 
> although there may be some value in  this for the initiate.
> 
> It seems one of the great challenges  faced by the 
> Mahatmas and Madame Blavatsky was to translate the  meaning 
> of virtually untranslatable abstract concepts into 
>  something at least approximating a similar meaning in the 
> western  analytical mind.
> 
> As the Mahatma KH writes, "First of all and  again I will 
> draw your attention to the tremendous difficulty of  
> finding appropriate terms in English which would convey 
> to  the educated European mind even an approximately 
> correct notion about  the various subjects we will have 
> to treat upon." 
> ML 65 Chr.  of George Linton and Virginia Hanson
> 
> And from the Mahatma M,  "Our terms are untranslatable; 
> and without a good knowledge of our  complete system 
> (which cannot be given but to regular initiates)  would 
> suggest nothing definite to your perceptions but only 
>  be a source of confusion... 
> ML 46 Chronology of George Linton  and Virginia Hanson
> 
> And again from the Mahatma KH, "Our  mystic terms in their 
> clumsy re-translation from the Sanskrit into  English are 
> as confusing to us as they are to you - especially to  "M"." 
> ML 66 Chronology of George Linton and Virginia Hanson
>  
> Therefore, once again from my perspective, many of the 
>  specific terms and passages used in their teachings were 
> neither  "blinds", dichotomies nor contradictions.
> 
> The strongly  analytical western minds of Messrs Sinnett 
> and Hume, and indeed many  in this forum, needed and need
> precise terms and categories to satisfy  a need for 
> certainty. But perhaps absolute certainty is not possible  
> in matters spiritual and occult? 
> 
> Nevertheless, the  Mahatmas' and Madame Blavatsky's dharma 
> was to bring their eastern,  occult teachings to the west and 
> they often had to use a certain  specificity of terminology to 
> illustrate a hidden mystery, a  terminology which might have 
> little or no real basis in  "fact."
> 
> For me, herein lies the value of their apparent  dichotomies. 
> They can cause some mystical minds to seek behind the  written 
> statement in an attempt to understand the otherwise  mysterious 
> meaning rather than focusing on the specific  details.
> 
> Regards
> Nigel 
> 
> > Dear  Nigel,
> > 
> > Thanks for the quotes, which confirms the  dichotomy between KH 
and 
> HPB
> > as where they place the  bulk of humanity:
> > 
> > HPB: V-5
> > 
>  > KH: IV-7
> > 
> > Possible solution:
> >  
> > As 1) the Mahatma Letters were not meant for publication and 2)  
> HPB's
> > position is in her public writings, and 3) as  there is this 
idea 
> that
> > exact numbers can not be  given, it is therefore possible that 
the KH
> > position has more  merit than HPB's.
> > 
> > Any other solutions to  this?
> > 
> > Govert
> > 
> > 
>  > Mahatma KH writes, ".the highest people now
> > on earth  (spiritually) belong to the first sub-race of the fifth
> > root  Race, and those are the Aryan Asiatics; the highest race
> >  (physical intellectuality) is the last sub-race of the fifth -
> >  yourselves the white conquerors. The majority of mankind belongs
> >  to the seventh sub-race of the fourth Root race, - the above
> >  mentioned Chinamen and their off-shoots and branchlets 
(Malayans,
>  > Mongolians, Tibetans, Javanese, etc., etc., etc.) and remnants
>  > of other sub-races of the fourth - and the seventh sub-race of
>  > the third race.
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
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>

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