Theos-Talk Archives (January 2009 Message tt00629)

No I think not, we  are than one with all without separation.
So not a part of it, but it.
Christina










--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, OK, but I was referring to the creation and cessation of 
universes (I take the subtle point that we are that universe) and as 
such we are the infinite universe living in finite sections while in 
manifestation.  Unless you are thinking that when the universe (us) 
is in Pralaya that there is still individulization or awareness of 
identify within and part of the all?
> Â 
> Cass 
> 
> --- On Sat, 24/1/09, christinaleestemaker 
<christinaleestemaker@...> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: christinaleestemaker <christinaleestemaker@...>
> Subject: Theos-World Re: 1. Maya .Finite and infinite
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Received: Saturday, 24 January, 2009, 11:08 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What HPB meaned with numberless of infinites, what do you think?
> Of course she meant the numberless of monads, which are infinite.
> Christina
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@ ...> 
wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Christina
> > "Considered in this manner, there is one Infinite, made up of 
> > numberless infinites."
> > � 
> > Isn't this the same as what I am suggesting?� �  Except I am 
using 
> finite - eg. numberless finites -Infinite to our way of thinking 
> means never ending - what does she mean then by numberless 
infinites?
> > � 
> > Cass
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Fri, 23/1/09, christinaleestemake r 
> <christinaleestemak er@> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > From: christinaleestemake r <christinaleestemak er@>
> > Subject: Theos-World Re: 1. Maya .Finite and infinite
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > Received: Friday, 23 January, 2009, 5:43 PM
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > This is what I have found over the finite and infinite in Mahatma 
> > letter 6 on internet.
> > Plato was right: ideas rule the world; and, as men's minds will 
> > receive new ideas, laying aside the old and effete, the world 
will 
> > advance: mighty revolutions will spring from them; creeds and 
even 
> > powers will crumble before their onward march crushed by the 
> > irresistible force. It will be just as impossible to resist their 
> > influx, when the time comes, as to stay the progress of the tide. 
> But 
> > all this will come gradually on, and before it comes we have a 
duty 
> > set before us; that of sweeping away as much as possible the 
dross 
> > left to us by our pious forefathers. New ideas have to be planted 
> on 
> > clean places, for these ideas touch upon the most momentous 
> subjects. 
> > It is not physical phenomena but these universal ideas that we 
> study, 
> > as to comprehend the former, we have to first understand the 
> latter. 
> > They touch man's true position in the universe, in relation to 
his 
> > previous and future births; his origin and ultimate destiny; the 
> > relation of the mortal to the immortal; of the temporary to the 
> > eternal; of the finite to the infinite; ideas larger, grander, 
more 
> > comprehensive, recognising the universal reign of Immutable Law, 
> > unchanging and unchangeable in regard to which there is only an 
> > ETERNAL Now, while to uninitiated mortals time is past or future 
as 
> > related to their finite existence on this material speck of dirt. 
> > This is what we study and what many have solved.
> > 
> > And now it is your province to decide which will you have: the 
> > highest philosophy or simple exhibitions of occult powers. Of 
> course 
> > this is by far not the last word between us and -- you will have 
> time 
> > to think it over. The Chiefs want a "Brotherhood of Humanity," a 
> real 
> > Universal Fraternity started; an institution which would make 
> itself 
> > known throughout the world and arrest the attention of the 
highest 
> > minds. I will send you my Essay. Will you be my co-worker and 
> > patiently wait for minor phenomena? I think I foresee the answer. 
> At 
> > all events the holy lamp of spiritual light burning in you 
(however 
> > dimly) there is hope for you, and -- for me, also. Yes; put 
> yourself 
> > in search after natives if there are no English people to be had. 
> But 
> > think you, the spirit and power of persecution gone from this 
> > enlightened age? Time will prove. Meanwhile, being human I have 
to 
> > rest. I took no sleep for over 60 hours.
> > 
> > Ever yours truly,
> > 
> > KOOT' HOOMI. 
> > 
> > And few sight over Collected writings, perhaps she have written 
> more 
> > in secret doctrine and key to theosophy, but I will let it for 
now:
> > 
> > HPB.Collected writings IV
> > Page 536
> > 
> > vehicles, if preferred, as to facilitate the manifestation of his 
> > individuality in its original nature.
> > 
> > My own inference is that Advaita and this coincide, the former 
> > considering that Jivan is Parabrahm, modified by the latter into 
> > "Jivan is a part only of Parabrahm."
> > 
> > We believe not. A true esoteric Vedantic Advaitee would say: Aham 
> eva 
> > Parambrahm, "I am also Parabrahm." In its external manifestation 
> > Jivan may be regarded as a distinct individualityâ�" the latter a 
> maya; 
> > in its essence or nature Jivan isâ�"Parabrahm, the consciousness 
of 
> the 
> > Paramatma manifesting through, and existing solely in, the 
> aggregated 
> > Jivans viewed collectively. A creek in the shore of the ocean is 
> one, 
> > so long only as the land it stretches upon is not redeemed. 
Forced 
> > back, its water becomes the ocean.
> > 
> > Considered in this manner, there is one Infinite, made up of 
> > numberless infinites.
> > 
> > We are at a loss to know what our learned brother can mean by 
Jivan 
> > being "dependent" on the whole, unless "inseparable from" is 
meant. 
> > If the whole is "all-pervading" and "infinite," all its parts 
must 
> be 
> > indivisibly linked together. The idea of separation involves the 
> > possibility of a vacuumâ�"a portion of space or time where the 
whole 
> is 
> > supposed to be absent from some given point. Hence the absurdity 
of 
> > speaking of the parts of one Infinite being also infinite. To 
> > illustrate geometrically, suppose there is an infinite line, 
which 
> > has neither a beginning nor end. Its parts cannot also be 
infinite, 
> > for when you say "parts," they must have a beginning and end; or, 
> in 
> > other words, they must be finite, either at one or the other end, 
> > which is as evident a fallacy as to speak of an immortal soul 
which 
> > was at some time createdâ�"thus implying a beginning to that 
which, 
> if 
> > the word has any sense, is eternal.
> > 
> > Jiva, Iswara and Maya are considered to be real, all the three in 
> > this light, i.e., as long as anything has existence, it is real 
or 
> > true, although that existence may not last forever. The Advaitee 
> says 
> > that only that which is immutable is true, and all things 
temporary 
> > and liable to change are illusionary; whereas the 
> Vi&#347;ishtadvaite e 
> > says that as immutability is real in the eternity, so mutability 
is 
> > also real for the time being, and so long as there is no change. 
My 
> > own inference is that all the difficulty here lies in the words, 
> but 
> > that the idea is one. 
> > 
> > Collected writings VIII
> > Page 88
> > 
> > unknown principle called Parabrahman, Ã?â??di-Buddha, the "One and 
> > Eternal Wisdom."
> > If there is a still greater absurdity than to speak of a cruel 
God: 
> > it is to admit that God, the Great, Absolute Whole, could ever 
> > interfere in terrestrial or human affairs. The infinite cannot 
> > associate with the finite; the unconditioned ignores the 
> conditioned 
> > and the limited. The absolute "Intelligence- Wisdom" cannot act 
in 
> the 
> > restricted space of a small globe. It is omnipresent and latent 
in 
> > the Kosmos, infinite as itself. We find its only truly active 
> > manifestation in humanity as a whole, composed as it is of stray 
> > sparks, finite in their objective duration, eternal in their 
> essence, 
> > issuing from that Hearth without beginning or end. Therefore, the 
> > only God whom we should serve is Humanity, and our only cult 
should 
> > be the love of our fellow man. Doing evil towards him, we wound 
God 
> > and make him suffer. When we deny our brotherly duties and refuse 
> to 
> > consider a pagan as well as a European as our brother, we deny 
God. 
> > This is our religion and our dogmas.
> > 
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "christinaleestemak er" 
> > <christinaleestemak er@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Yes Cass, but than( after that trillion of years) we may hope 
> that 
> > > the infinite have taken place over the finite.
> > > Christina
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@ > 
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Within a cycle there is Christina - Each Manvantara has its 
> > Pralaya 
> > > - so one could argue that infinity resides in pre-pralaya and 
all 
> > > else that is a result of it is still finite - even if we are 
> > talking 
> > > about trillions of our years.
> > > > Cass
> > > > 
> > > > --- On Fri, 23/1/09, christinaleestemake r 
> > > <christinaleestemak er@> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > From: christinaleestemake r <christinaleestemak er@>
> > > > Subject: 1. Maya . 2.Re: Theos-World Re: Our latest news: 
> America 
> > > run on guns!!!
> > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > > > Received: Friday, 23 January, 2009, 8:16 AM
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > As I understand well, if it is to be measured it is finite
> (Maya) 
> > so 
> > > > for that it is not the alpha and omega the infinite, what is 
> the 
> > > only 
> > > > reality,which is not to be measured for there is no beginning 
> and 
> > > no 
> > > > end.
> > > > Christina
> > > > 
> > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Jayananda Hiranandani 
> > > > <professorjaya@ ...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The root of word maya, is ma (a is long as in father). It 
> means 
> > > > measure, which makes it finite. In Sindhi, (an Indo-Aryan 
> > language 
> > > > with many Sanskrit words, perhaps 70 per cent), the word for 
> > > measure 
> > > > is mapa (first a is long as in father, the second is short as 
> in 
> > > > final).
> > > > > Ã?â??Ã? 
> > > > > Jayananda H. Hiranandani
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- On Thu, 1/22/09, christinaleestemake r 
> > > > <christinaleestemak er@> wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > From: christinaleestemake r <christinaleestemak er@>
> > > > > Subject: Theos-World Re: Our latest news: America run on 
> guns!!!
> > > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > > > > Date: Thursday, January 22, 2009, 10:59 AM
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Mistake need to read for infinite -- FINITE=Maya
> > > > > 
> > > > > Infinite is NOT
> > > > > Christina
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "christinaleestemak er" 
> > > > > <christinaleestemak er@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Don't worry Adalasie and others.
> > > > > > All what is infinite is MAYA.
> > > > > > But I am glad I don't live in America. ( 70 % of the 
> > Americans 
> > > > > > bought a gun (nov-dec and jan) accept the ones already 
have 
> > one.
> > > > > > I don't think they use it for hunting on hares!
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > PS Here it is forbidden to have a gun, only policeman may 
> > have 
> > > > and 
> > > > > > only use in vital threat
> > > > > > Christina
> > > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a 
> > smarter 
> > > inbox. Take a look http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/smarterinbo x
> > > > 
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter 
> inbox. Take a look http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/smarterinbo x
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter 
inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>