Theos-Talk Archives (January 2009 Message tt00605)

Christina,
No, I agree with Advaita Krama Kashmir Paradigm. Shiva is Creator---- Transformer from my personal pov. The Five actions

Projection of the creation (as mayavic reality)

Maintenance of the creation (By second postulate- I am that I am)

Veiling of the creation ( the absence of memory of home) 

Transformation of the creation (Pralaya)

Grace (return to unity in the absolute)

Regards,
John



-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "christinaleestemaker" <christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com> 
So shiva is also the destroyer in your eyes.
Christina

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Martin <Mvandertak@...> wrote:
>
> Exactly John, the 3 wise great Nature, Brahma in ideas, Shiwa in 
manifesting and transforming, Vishnu in maintaining...reflecting in 
the 3 guna's sattwa, raja's and tamas.
> 
> --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Augoeides-222@... <Augoeides-222@...> wrote:
> From: Augoeides-222@... <Augoeides-222@...>
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: 1. Maya .Finite and infinite
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 6:39 PM
> 
> Christina,
> Here is a view. In the Shiva Sutra's although Shiva is in a 
common sense
> popularized as "Creator - Destroyer" in an inner sense he is called
> "Creator - Transformer", Transformation is a better word for the
> transformation from manisfestation to the absolute.
> 
> >>>www.kheper.net/topics/Trika/Pancakrtya.htm<<<
> 
> Regards,
> John
> 
> -------------- Original message -------------- 
> From: "christinaleestemaker" <christinaleestemaker@...> 
> Right, only one thing I have a little trouble with and that is that 
> in pralaya you call: the Will to destroy, I think there is a better 
> word for, the Will to keeep things in rest.For later new creations.
> Destroy is a finite definition.Than it would like we take not 
> rememberance with us.The one state flows always cumulative over in 
> the next.
> Christina
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Martin <Mvandertak@> wrote:
> >
> > Christina:
> > 
> > Zakk, Jerry and others are discussing this and nother matters 
very 
> extensively. By their intellectual approach you may understand the 
> mind has to go through an intellectual state, driven by the power 
of 
> instinct, to reach pure Intuïtion, which doesn't need words or 
form. 
> Like Ideas have no need of words or form. However as soon as the 
> Ideas reach a world and its inhabitants, they need form and words 
to 
> be understood by them and to be realised.
> > This realisation is like a piece of music, it comes and it dies 
> out. Illusion yes, beautifull when in perfect harmony, noise at its 
> worst.
> > It is eternal Law which causes Ideas to appear in any world to be 
> realised and maintained if the effect improves life of the 
> inhabitants, who are 'crystalised' music as well.
> > Above Ideas is the Cosmic Will, the Will to create and in 
Pralaya, 
> the Will to destroy.
> > 
> > To call the earth a speck of dirt is very disrespectfull for the 
> composition of music, made by the Dzyan Chohans. Of course earth's 
> music could improve, but tell me how many of you are musicians?
> > A 'Brotherhood of Humanity' is a piece of music, which is written 
> but not finished. The earth needs to be worked upon to be a good 
> instrument to reflect the harmonious tunes of the Human Soul. As 
long 
> as we do not understand, all is music, we will be in trouble, every 
> time...trillions of years or merely a 100 years in this Kali Yuga?
> > As for phenomena, music stirs the soul, need I say more?
> > 
> > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, christinaleestemaker 
> <christinaleestemaker@> wrote:
> > From: christinaleestemaker <christinaleestemaker@>
> > Subject: Theos-World Re: 1. Maya .Finite and infinite
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 7:43 AM
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > This is what I have found over the finite and infinite 
> in Mahatma 
> > 
> > letter 6 on internet.
> > 
> > Plato was right: ideas rule the world; and, as men's minds will 
> > 
> > receive new ideas, laying aside the old and effete, the world 
will 
> > 
> > advance: mighty revolutions will spring from them; creeds and 
even 
> > 
> > powers will crumble before their onward march crushed by the 
> > 
> > irresistible force. It will be just as impossible to resist their 
> > 
> > influx, when the time comes, as to stay the progress of the tide. 
> But 
> > 
> > all this will come gradually on, and before it comes we have a 
duty 
> > 
> > set before us; that of sweeping away as much as possible the 
dross 
> > 
> > left to us by our pious forefathers. New ideas have to be planted 
> on 
> > 
> > clean places, for these ideas touch upon the most momentous 
> subjects. 
> > 
> > It is not physical phenomena but these universal ideas that we 
> study, 
> > 
> > as to comprehend the former, we have to first understand the 
> latter. 
> > 
> > They touch man's true position in the universe, in relation to 
his 
> > 
> > previous and future births; his origin and ultimate destiny; the 
> > 
> > relation of the mortal to the immortal; of the temporary to the 
> > 
> > eternal; of the finite to the infinite; ideas larger, grander, 
more 
> > 
> > comprehensive, recognising the universal reign of Immutable Law, 
> > 
> > unchanging and unchangeable in regard to which there is only an 
> > 
> > ETERNAL Now, while to uninitiated mortals time is past or future 
as 
> > 
> > related to their finite existence on this material speck of dirt. 
> > 
> > This is what we study and what many have solved.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > And now it is your province to decide which will you have: the 
> > 
> > highest philosophy or simple exhibitions of occult powers. Of 
> course 
> > 
> > this is by far not the last word between us and -- you will have 
> time 
> > 
> > to think it over. The Chiefs want a "Brotherhood of Humanity," a
> 
> real 
> > 
> > Universal Fraternity started; an institution which would make 
> itself 
> > 
> > known throughout the world and arrest the attention of the 
highest 
> > 
> > minds. I will send you my Essay. Will you be my co-worker and 
> > 
> > patiently wait for minor phenomena? I think I foresee the answer. 
> At 
> > 
> > all events the holy lamp of spiritual light burning in you 
(however 
> > 
> > dimly) there is hope for you, and -- for me, also. Yes; put 
> yourself 
> > 
> > in search after natives if there are no English people to be had. 
> But 
> > 
> > think you, the spirit and power of persecution gone from this 
> > 
> > enlightened age? Time will prove. Meanwhile, being human I have 
to 
> > 
> > rest. I took no sleep for over 60 hours.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Ever yours truly,
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > KOOT' HOOMI. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > And few sight over Collected writings, perhaps she have written 
> more 
> > 
> > in secret doctrine and key to theosophy, but I will let it for 
now:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > HPB.Collected writings IV
> > 
> > Page 536
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > vehicles, if preferred, as to facilitate the manifestation of his 
> > 
> > individuality in its original nature.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > My own inference is that Advaita and this coincide, the former 
> > 
> > considering that Jivan is Parabrahm, modified by the latter into 
> > 
> > "Jivan is a part only of Parabrahm."
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > We believe not. A true esoteric Vedantic Advaitee would say: Aham 
> eva 
> > 
> > Parambrahm, "I am also Parabrahm." In its external manifestation
> 
> > 
> > Jivan may be regarded as a distinct individuality? the latter a 
> maya; 
> > 
> > in its essence or nature Jivan is?Parabrahm, the consciousness of 
> the 
> > 
> > Paramatma manifesting through, and existing solely in, the 
> aggregated 
> > 
> > Jivans viewed collectively. A creek in the shore of the ocean is 
> one, 
> > 
> > so long only as the land it stretches upon is not redeemed. 
Forced 
> > 
> > back, its water becomes the ocean.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Considered in this manner, there is one Infinite, made up of 
> > 
> > numberless infinites.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > We are at a loss to know what our learned brother can mean by 
Jivan 
> > 
> > being "dependent" on the whole, unless "inseparable
> from" is meant. 
> > 
> > If the whole is "all-pervading" and "infinite," all
> its parts must 
> be 
> > 
> > indivisibly linked together. The idea of separation involves the 
> > 
> > possibility of a vacuum?a portion of space or time where the 
whole 
> is 
> > 
> > supposed to be absent from some given point. Hence the absurdity 
of 
> > 
> > speaking of the parts of one Infinite being also infinite. To 
> > 
> > illustrate geometrically, suppose there is an infinite line, 
which 
> > 
> > has neither a beginning nor end. Its parts cannot also be 
infinite, 
> > 
> > for when you say "parts," they must have a beginning and end;
> or, 
> in 
> > 
> > other words, they must be finite, either at one or the other end, 
> > 
> > which is as evident a fallacy as to speak of an immortal soul 
which 
> > 
> > was at some time created?thus implying a beginning to that which, 
> if 
> > 
> > the word has any sense, is eternal.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Jiva, Iswara and Maya are considered to be real, all the three in 
> > 
> > this light, i.e., as long as anything has existence, it is real 
or 
> > 
> > true, although that existence may not last forever. The Advaitee 
> says 
> > 
> > that only that which is immutable is true, and all things 
temporary 
> > 
> > and liable to change are illusionary; whereas the 
> Vi&#347;ishtadvaite e 
> > 
> > says that as immutability is real in the eternity, so mutability 
is 
> > 
> > also real for the time being, and so long as there is no change. 
My 
> > 
> > own inference is that all the difficulty here lies in the words, 
> but 
> > 
> > that the idea is one. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Collected writings VIII
> > 
> > Page 88
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > unknown principle called Parabrahman, Âdi-Buddha, the "One and 
> > 
> > Eternal Wisdom."
> > 
> > If there is a still greater absurdity than to speak of a cruel 
God: 
> > 
> > it is to admit that God, the Great, Absolute Whole, could ever 
> > 
> > interfere in terrestrial or human affairs. The infinite cannot 
> > 
> > associate with the finite; the unconditioned ignores the 
> conditioned 
> > 
> > and the limited. The absolute "Intelligence- Wisdom" cannot act
> in 
> the 
> > 
> > restricted space of a small globe. It is omnipresent and latent 
in 
> > 
> > the Kosmos, infinite as itself. We find its only truly active 
> > 
> > manifestation in humanity as a whole, composed as it is of stray 
> > 
> > sparks, finite in their objective duration, eternal in their 
> essence, 
> > 
> > issuing from that Hearth without beginning or end. Therefore, the 
> > 
> > only God whom we should serve is Humanity, and our only cult 
should 
> > 
> > be the love of our fellow man. Doing evil towards him, we wound 
God 
> > 
> > and make him suffer. When we deny our brotherly duties and refuse 
> to 
> > 
> > consider a pagan as well as a European as our brother, we deny 
God. 
> > 
> > This is our religion and our dogmas.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "christinaleestemak er" 
> > 
> > <christinaleestemak er@> wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > Yes Cass, but than( after that trillion of years) we may hope 
> that 
> > 
> > > the infinite have taken place over the finite.
> > 
> > > Christina
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@ > 
> wrote:
> > 
> > > >
> > 
> > > > Within a cycle there is Christina - Each Manvantara has its 
> > 
> > Pralaya 
> > 
> > > - so one could argue that infinity resides in pre-pralaya and 
all 
> > 
> > > else that is a result of it is still finite - even if we are 
> > 
> > talking 
> > 
> > > about trillions of our years.
> > 
> > > > Cass
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > --- On Fri, 23/1/09, christinaleestemake r 
> > 
> > > <christinaleestemak er@> wrote:
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > From: christinaleestemake r <christinaleestemak er@>
> > 
> > > > Subject: 1. Maya . 2.Re: Theos-World Re: Our latest news: 
> America 
> > 
> > > run on guns!!!
> > 
> > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > 
> > > > Received: Friday, 23 January, 2009, 8:16 AM
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > As I understand well, if it is to be measured it is finite
> (Maya) 
> > 
> > so 
> > 
> > > > for that it is not the alpha and omega the infinite, what is 
> the 
> > 
> > > only 
> > 
> > > > reality,which is not to be measured for there is no beginning 
> and 
> > 
> > > no 
> > 
> > > > end.
> > 
> > > > Christina
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Jayananda Hiranandani 
> > 
> > > > <professorjaya@ ...> wrote:
> > 
> > > > >
> > 
> > > > > The root of word maya, is ma (a is long as in father). It 
> means 
> > 
> > > > measure, which makes it finite. In Sindhi, (an Indo-Aryan 
> > 
> > language 
> > 
> > > > with many Sanskrit words, perhaps 70 per cent), the word for 
> > 
> > > measure 
> > 
> > > > is mapa (first a is long as in father, the second is short as 
> in 
> > 
> > > > final).
> > 
> > > > > Â 
> > 
> > > > > Jayananda H. Hiranandani
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > --- On Thu, 1/22/09, christinaleestemake r 
> > 
> > > > <christinaleestemak er@> wrote:
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > From: christinaleestemake r <christinaleestemak er@>
> > 
> > > > > Subject: Theos-World Re: Our latest news: America run on 
> guns!!!
> > 
> > > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > 
> > > > > Date: Thursday, January 22, 2009, 10:59 AM
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > Mistake need to read for infinite -- FINITE=Maya
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > Infinite is NOT
> > 
> > > > > Christina
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com,
> "christinaleestemak er" 
> > 
> > > > > <christinaleestemak er@> wrote:
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > Don't worry Adalasie and others.
> > 
> > > > > > All what is infinite is MAYA.
> > 
> > > > > > But I am glad I don't live in America. ( 70 % of
> the 
> > 
> > Americans 
> > 
> > > > > > bought a gun (nov-dec and jan) accept the ones already
> have 
> > 
> > one.
> > 
> > > > > > I don't think they use it for hunting on hares!
> > 
> > > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > > PS Here it is forbidden to have a gun, only policeman
> may 
> > 
> > have 
> > 
> > > > and 
> > 
> > > > > > only use in vital threat
> > 
> > > > > > Christina
> > 
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> > > > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a 
> > 
> > smarter 
> > 
> > > inbox. Take a look http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/smarterinbo x
> > 
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