Theos-World Re: 1. Maya .Finite and infinite
Jan 23, 2009 01:43 PM
by christinaleestemaker
SD
Vol. 1, Page 51 CAN THE FINITE CONCEIVE THE INFINITE?
According to Hegel, the "Unconscious" would never have undertaken the
vast and laborious task of evolving the Universe, except in the hope
of attaining clear Self-consciousness. In this connection it is to be
borne in mind that in designating Spirit, which the European
Pantheists use as equivalent to Parabrahm, as unconscious, they do
not attach to that expression of "Spirit" ? one employed in the
absence of a better to symbolise a profound mystery ? the connotation
it usually bears.
The "Absolute Consciousness," they tell us, "behind" phenomena, which
is only termed unconsciousness in the absence of any element of
personality, transcends human conception. Man, unable to form one
concept except in terms of empirical phenomena, is powerless from the
very constitution of his being to raise the veil that shrouds the
majesty of the Absolute. Only the liberated Spirit is able to faintly
realise the nature of the source whence it sprung and whither it must
eventually return. . . . As the highest Dhyan Chohan, however, can
but bow in ignorance before the awful mystery of Absolute Being; and
since, even in that culmination of conscious existence ? "the merging
of the individual in the universal consciousness" ? to use a phrase
of Fichte's ? the Finite cannot conceive the Infinite, nor can it
apply to it its own standard of mental experiences, how can it be
said that the "Unconscious" and the Absolute can have even an
instinctive impulse or hope of attaining clear self-consciousness?* A
Vedantin would never admit this Hegelian idea; and the Occultist
would say that it applies perfectly to the awakened mahat, the
Universal Mind already projected into the phenomenal world as the
first aspect of the changeless absolute, but never to the latter.
"Spirit and Matter, or Purusha and Prakriti are but the two primeval
aspects of the One and Secondless," we are taught.
The matter-moving Nous, the animating Soul, immanent in every atom,
manifested in man, latent in the stone, has different degrees of
power; and this pantheistic idea of a general Spirit-Soul pervading
all Nature is the oldest of all the philosophical notions. Nor was
the Archaeus a discovery of Paracelsus nor of his pupil Van Helmont;
for it is again the same Archaeus or "Father-Ether," ? the manifested
basis--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "christinaleestemaker"
<christinaleestemaker@...> wrote:
>
> So shiva is also the destroyer in your eyes.
> Christina
>
>
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Martin <Mvandertak@> wrote:
> >
> > Exactly John, the 3 wise great Nature, Brahma in ideas, Shiwa in
> manifesting and transforming, Vishnu in maintaining...reflecting in
> the 3 guna's sattwa, raja's and tamas.
> >
> > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Augoeides-222@ <Augoeides-222@> wrote:
> > From: Augoeides-222@ <Augoeides-222@>
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: 1. Maya .Finite and infinite
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 6:39 PM
> >
> > Christina,
> > Here is a view. In the Shiva Sutra's although Shiva is in a
> common sense
> > popularized as "Creator - Destroyer" in an inner sense he is
called
> > "Creator - Transformer", Transformation is a better word for the
> > transformation from manisfestation to the absolute.
> >
> > >>>www.kheper.net/topics/Trika/Pancakrtya.htm<<<
> >
> > Regards,
> > John
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: "christinaleestemaker" <christinaleestemaker@>
> > Right, only one thing I have a little trouble with and that is
that
> > in pralaya you call: the Will to destroy, I think there is a
better
> > word for, the Will to keeep things in rest.For later new
creations.
> > Destroy is a finite definition.Than it would like we take not
> > rememberance with us.The one state flows always cumulative over
in
> > the next.
> > Christina
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Martin <Mvandertak@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Christina:
> > >
> > > Zakk, Jerry and others are discussing this and nother matters
> very
> > extensively. By their intellectual approach you may understand
the
> > mind has to go through an intellectual state, driven by the power
> of
> > instinct, to reach pure Intuïtion, which doesn't need words or
> form.
> > Like Ideas have no need of words or form. However as soon as the
> > Ideas reach a world and its inhabitants, they need form and words
> to
> > be understood by them and to be realised.
> > > This realisation is like a piece of music, it comes and it dies
> > out. Illusion yes, beautifull when in perfect harmony, noise at
its
> > worst.
> > > It is eternal Law which causes Ideas to appear in any world to
be
> > realised and maintained if the effect improves life of the
> > inhabitants, who are 'crystalised' music as well.
> > > Above Ideas is the Cosmic Will, the Will to create and in
> Pralaya,
> > the Will to destroy.
> > >
> > > To call the earth a speck of dirt is very disrespectfull for
the
> > composition of music, made by the Dzyan Chohans. Of course
earth's
> > music could improve, but tell me how many of you are musicians?
> > > A 'Brotherhood of Humanity' is a piece of music, which is
written
> > but not finished. The earth needs to be worked upon to be a good
> > instrument to reflect the harmonious tunes of the Human Soul. As
> long
> > as we do not understand, all is music, we will be in trouble,
every
> > time...trillions of years or merely a 100 years in this Kali Yuga?
> > > As for phenomena, music stirs the soul, need I say more?
> > >
> > > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, christinaleestemaker
> > <christinaleestemaker@> wrote:
> > > From: christinaleestemaker <christinaleestemaker@>
> > > Subject: Theos-World Re: 1. Maya .Finite and infinite
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 7:43 AM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > This is what I have found over the finite and infinite
> > in Mahatma
> > >
> > > letter 6 on internet.
> > >
> > > Plato was right: ideas rule the world; and, as men's minds will
> > >
> > > receive new ideas, laying aside the old and effete, the world
> will
> > >
> > > advance: mighty revolutions will spring from them; creeds and
> even
> > >
> > > powers will crumble before their onward march crushed by the
> > >
> > > irresistible force. It will be just as impossible to resist
their
> > >
> > > influx, when the time comes, as to stay the progress of the
tide.
> > But
> > >
> > > all this will come gradually on, and before it comes we have a
> duty
> > >
> > > set before us; that of sweeping away as much as possible the
> dross
> > >
> > > left to us by our pious forefathers. New ideas have to be
planted
> > on
> > >
> > > clean places, for these ideas touch upon the most momentous
> > subjects.
> > >
> > > It is not physical phenomena but these universal ideas that we
> > study,
> > >
> > > as to comprehend the former, we have to first understand the
> > latter.
> > >
> > > They touch man's true position in the universe, in relation to
> his
> > >
> > > previous and future births; his origin and ultimate destiny;
the
> > >
> > > relation of the mortal to the immortal; of the temporary to the
> > >
> > > eternal; of the finite to the infinite; ideas larger, grander,
> more
> > >
> > > comprehensive, recognising the universal reign of Immutable
Law,
> > >
> > > unchanging and unchangeable in regard to which there is only an
> > >
> > > ETERNAL Now, while to uninitiated mortals time is past or
future
> as
> > >
> > > related to their finite existence on this material speck of
dirt.
> > >
> > > This is what we study and what many have solved.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > And now it is your province to decide which will you have: the
> > >
> > > highest philosophy or simple exhibitions of occult powers. Of
> > course
> > >
> > > this is by far not the last word between us and -- you will
have
> > time
> > >
> > > to think it over. The Chiefs want a "Brotherhood of Humanity," a
> >
> > real
> > >
> > > Universal Fraternity started; an institution which would make
> > itself
> > >
> > > known throughout the world and arrest the attention of the
> highest
> > >
> > > minds. I will send you my Essay. Will you be my co-worker and
> > >
> > > patiently wait for minor phenomena? I think I foresee the
answer.
> > At
> > >
> > > all events the holy lamp of spiritual light burning in you
> (however
> > >
> > > dimly) there is hope for you, and -- for me, also. Yes; put
> > yourself
> > >
> > > in search after natives if there are no English people to be
had.
> > But
> > >
> > > think you, the spirit and power of persecution gone from this
> > >
> > > enlightened age? Time will prove. Meanwhile, being human I have
> to
> > >
> > > rest. I took no sleep for over 60 hours.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ever yours truly,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > KOOT' HOOMI.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > And few sight over Collected writings, perhaps she have written
> > more
> > >
> > > in secret doctrine and key to theosophy, but I will let it for
> now:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > HPB.Collected writings IV
> > >
> > > Page 536
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > vehicles, if preferred, as to facilitate the manifestation of
his
> > >
> > > individuality in its original nature.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > My own inference is that Advaita and this coincide, the former
> > >
> > > considering that Jivan is Parabrahm, modified by the latter
into
> > >
> > > "Jivan is a part only of Parabrahm."
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > We believe not. A true esoteric Vedantic Advaitee would say:
Aham
> > eva
> > >
> > > Parambrahm, "I am also Parabrahm." In its external manifestation
> >
> > >
> > > Jivan may be regarded as a distinct individuality? the latter a
> > maya;
> > >
> > > in its essence or nature Jivan is?Parabrahm, the consciousness
of
> > the
> > >
> > > Paramatma manifesting through, and existing solely in, the
> > aggregated
> > >
> > > Jivans viewed collectively. A creek in the shore of the ocean
is
> > one,
> > >
> > > so long only as the land it stretches upon is not redeemed.
> Forced
> > >
> > > back, its water becomes the ocean.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Considered in this manner, there is one Infinite, made up of
> > >
> > > numberless infinites.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > We are at a loss to know what our learned brother can mean by
> Jivan
> > >
> > > being "dependent" on the whole, unless "inseparable
> > from" is meant.
> > >
> > > If the whole is "all-pervading" and "infinite," all
> > its parts must
> > be
> > >
> > > indivisibly linked together. The idea of separation involves
the
> > >
> > > possibility of a vacuum?a portion of space or time where the
> whole
> > is
> > >
> > > supposed to be absent from some given point. Hence the
absurdity
> of
> > >
> > > speaking of the parts of one Infinite being also infinite. To
> > >
> > > illustrate geometrically, suppose there is an infinite line,
> which
> > >
> > > has neither a beginning nor end. Its parts cannot also be
> infinite,
> > >
> > > for when you say "parts," they must have a beginning and end;
> > or,
> > in
> > >
> > > other words, they must be finite, either at one or the other
end,
> > >
> > > which is as evident a fallacy as to speak of an immortal soul
> which
> > >
> > > was at some time created?thus implying a beginning to that
which,
> > if
> > >
> > > the word has any sense, is eternal.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jiva, Iswara and Maya are considered to be real, all the three
in
> > >
> > > this light, i.e., as long as anything has existence, it is real
> or
> > >
> > > true, although that existence may not last forever. The
Advaitee
> > says
> > >
> > > that only that which is immutable is true, and all things
> temporary
> > >
> > > and liable to change are illusionary; whereas the
> > Viśishtadvaite e
> > >
> > > says that as immutability is real in the eternity, so
mutability
> is
> > >
> > > also real for the time being, and so long as there is no
change.
> My
> > >
> > > own inference is that all the difficulty here lies in the
words,
> > but
> > >
> > > that the idea is one.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Collected writings VIII
> > >
> > > Page 88
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > unknown principle called Parabrahman, Âdi-Buddha, the "One and
> > >
> > > Eternal Wisdom."
> > >
> > > If there is a still greater absurdity than to speak of a cruel
> God:
> > >
> > > it is to admit that God, the Great, Absolute Whole, could ever
> > >
> > > interfere in terrestrial or human affairs. The infinite cannot
> > >
> > > associate with the finite; the unconditioned ignores the
> > conditioned
> > >
> > > and the limited. The absolute "Intelligence- Wisdom" cannot act
> > in
> > the
> > >
> > > restricted space of a small globe. It is omnipresent and latent
> in
> > >
> > > the Kosmos, infinite as itself. We find its only truly active
> > >
> > > manifestation in humanity as a whole, composed as it is of
stray
> > >
> > > sparks, finite in their objective duration, eternal in their
> > essence,
> > >
> > > issuing from that Hearth without beginning or end. Therefore,
the
> > >
> > > only God whom we should serve is Humanity, and our only cult
> should
> > >
> > > be the love of our fellow man. Doing evil towards him, we wound
> God
> > >
> > > and make him suffer. When we deny our brotherly duties and
refuse
> > to
> > >
> > > consider a pagan as well as a European as our brother, we deny
> God.
> > >
> > > This is our religion and our dogmas.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "christinaleestemak er"
> > >
> > > <christinaleestemak er@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Yes Cass, but than( after that trillion of years) we may hope
> > that
> > >
> > > > the infinite have taken place over the finite.
> > >
> > > > Christina
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@ >
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > Within a cycle there is Christina - Each Manvantara has its
> > >
> > > Pralaya
> > >
> > > > - so one could argue that infinity resides in pre-pralaya and
> all
> > >
> > > > else that is a result of it is still finite - even if we are
> > >
> > > talking
> > >
> > > > about trillions of our years.
> > >
> > > > > Cass
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > --- On Fri, 23/1/09, christinaleestemake r
> > >
> > > > <christinaleestemak er@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > From: christinaleestemake r <christinaleestemak er@>
> > >
> > > > > Subject: 1. Maya . 2.Re: Theos-World Re: Our latest news:
> > America
> > >
> > > > run on guns!!!
> > >
> > > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > >
> > > > > Received: Friday, 23 January, 2009, 8:16 AM
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > As I understand well, if it is to be measured it is finite
> > (Maya)
> > >
> > > so
> > >
> > > > > for that it is not the alpha and omega the infinite, what
is
> > the
> > >
> > > > only
> > >
> > > > > reality,which is not to be measured for there is no
beginning
> > and
> > >
> > > > no
> > >
> > > > > end.
> > >
> > > > > Christina
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Jayananda Hiranandani
> > >
> > > > > <professorjaya@ ...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > The root of word maya, is ma (a is long as in father). It
> > means
> > >
> > > > > measure, which makes it finite. In Sindhi, (an Indo-Aryan
> > >
> > > language
> > >
> > > > > with many Sanskrit words, perhaps 70 per cent), the word
for
> > >
> > > > measure
> > >
> > > > > is mapa (first a is long as in father, the second is short
as
> > in
> > >
> > > > > final).
> > >
> > > > > > Â
> > >
> > > > > > Jayananda H. Hiranandani
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/22/09, christinaleestemake r
> > >
> > > > > <christinaleestemak er@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > From: christinaleestemake r <christinaleestemak er@>
> > >
> > > > > > Subject: Theos-World Re: Our latest news: America run on
> > guns!!!
> > >
> > > > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > >
> > > > > > Date: Thursday, January 22, 2009, 10:59 AM
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > Mistake need to read for infinite -- FINITE=Maya
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > Infinite is NOT
> > >
> > > > > > Christina
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com,
> > "christinaleestemak er"
> > >
> > > > > > <christinaleestemak er@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > Don't worry Adalasie and others.
> > >
> > > > > > > All what is infinite is MAYA.
> > >
> > > > > > > But I am glad I don't live in America. ( 70 % of
> > the
> > >
> > > Americans
> > >
> > > > > > > bought a gun (nov-dec and jan) accept the ones already
> > have
> > >
> > > one.
> > >
> > > > > > > I don't think they use it for hunting on hares!
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > PS Here it is forbidden to have a gun, only policeman
> > may
> > >
> > > have
> > >
> > > > > and
> > >
> > > > > > > only use in vital threat
> > >
> > > > > > > Christina
> > >
> > > > > > >
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> > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
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> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a
> > >
> > > smarter
> > >
> > > > inbox. Take a look http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/
smarterinbo x
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
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> >
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