Theos-Talk Archives (January 2009 Message tt00595)

Christina,
   For some reason the link failed even though it executes fine from my favorites. Here are alternates:

Kashmir Shaivism Ch. 10 The Five great Actions of Shiva

>>>http://www.universalshaivafellowship.org/usf/teachings_01ch10.html<<<

Kashmir Shaivism Teachings

>>>http://www.universalshaivafellowship.org/usf/teachings_01.html<<<

For the Non-dual Kashmir Shaivism Teaching I recommend the works of Jaideva Singh and Swami Lakshman Jee

Regards,
John

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net 

> Christina, 
> Here is a view. In the Shiva Sutra's although Shiva is in a common sense 
> popularized as "Creator - Destroyer" in an inner sense he is called "Creator - 
> Transformer", Transformation is a better word for the transformation from 
> manisfestation to the absolute. 
> 
> >>>www.kheper.net/topics/Trika/Pancakrtya.htm<<< 
> 
> Regards, 
> John 
> 
> -------------- Original message -------------- 
> From: "christinaleestemaker" 
> Right, only one thing I have a little trouble with and that is that 
> in pralaya you call: the Will to destroy, I think there is a better 
> word for, the Will to keeep things in rest.For later new creations. 
> Destroy is a finite definition.Than it would like we take not 
> rememberance with us.The one state flows always cumulative over in 
> the next. 
> Christina 
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Martin wrote: 
> > 
> > Christina: 
> > 
> > Zakk, Jerry and others are discussing this and nother matters very 
> extensively. By their intellectual approach you may understand the 
> mind has to go through an intellectual state, driven by the power of 
> instinct, to reach pure Intuïtion, which doesn't need words or form. 
> Like Ideas have no need of words or form. However as soon as the 
> Ideas reach a world and its inhabitants, they need form and words to 
> be understood by them and to be realised. 
> > This realisation is like a piece of music, it comes and it dies 
> out. Illusion yes, beautifull when in perfect harmony, noise at its 
> worst. 
> > It is eternal Law which causes Ideas to appear in any world to be 
> realised and maintained if the effect improves life of the 
> inhabitants, who are 'crystalised' music as well. 
> > Above Ideas is the Cosmic Will, the Will to create and in Pralaya, 
> the Will to destroy. 
> > 
> > To call the earth a speck of dirt is very disrespectfull for the 
> composition of music, made by the Dzyan Chohans. Of course earth's 
> music could improve, but tell me how many of you are musicians? 
> > A 'Brotherhood of Humanity' is a piece of music, which is written 
> but not finished. The earth needs to be worked upon to be a good 
> instrument to reflect the harmonious tunes of the Human Soul. As long 
> as we do not understand, all is music, we will be in trouble, every 
> time...trillions of years or merely a 100 years in this Kali Yuga? 
> > As for phenomena, music stirs the soul, need I say more? 
> > 
> > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, christinaleestemaker 
> wrote: 
> > From: christinaleestemaker 
> > Subject: Theos-World Re: 1. Maya .Finite and infinite 
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
> > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 7:43 AM 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > This is what I have found over the finite and infinite 
> in Mahatma 
> > 
> > letter 6 on internet. 
> > 
> > Plato was right: ideas rule the world; and, as men's minds will 
> > 
> > receive new ideas, laying aside the old and effete, the world will 
> > 
> > advance: mighty revolutions will spring from them; creeds and even 
> > 
> > powers will crumble before their onward march crushed by the 
> > 
> > irresistible force. It will be just as impossible to resist their 
> > 
> > influx, when the time comes, as to stay the progress of the tide. 
> But 
> > 
> > all this will come gradually on, and before it comes we have a duty 
> > 
> > set before us; that of sweeping away as much as possible the dross 
> > 
> > left to us by our pious forefathers. New ideas have to be planted 
> on 
> > 
> > clean places, for these ideas touch upon the most momentous 
> subjects. 
> > 
> > It is not physical phenomena but these universal ideas that we 
> study, 
> > 
> > as to comprehend the former, we have to first understand the 
> latter. 
> > 
> > They touch man's true position in the universe, in relation to his 
> > 
> > previous and future births; his origin and ultimate destiny; the 
> > 
> > relation of the mortal to the immortal; of the temporary to the 
> > 
> > eternal; of the finite to the infinite; ideas larger, grander, more 
> > 
> > comprehensive, recognising the universal reign of Immutable Law, 
> > 
> > unchanging and unchangeable in regard to which there is only an 
> > 
> > ETERNAL Now, while to uninitiated mortals time is past or future as 
> > 
> > related to their finite existence on this material speck of dirt. 
> > 
> > This is what we study and what many have solved. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > And now it is your province to decide which will you have: the 
> > 
> > highest philosophy or simple exhibitions of occult powers. Of 
> course 
> > 
> > this is by far not the last word between us and -- you will have 
> time 
> > 
> > to think it over. The Chiefs want a "Brotherhood of Humanity," a 
> real 
> > 
> > Universal Fraternity started; an institution which would make 
> itself 
> > 
> > known throughout the world and arrest the attention of the highest 
> > 
> > minds. I will send you my Essay. Will you be my co-worker and 
> > 
> > patiently wait for minor phenomena? I think I foresee the answer. 
> At 
> > 
> > all events the holy lamp of spiritual light burning in you (however 
> > 
> > dimly) there is hope for you, and -- for me, also. Yes; put 
> yourself 
> > 
> > in search after natives if there are no English people to be had. 
> But 
> > 
> > think you, the spirit and power of persecution gone from this 
> > 
> > enlightened age? Time will prove. Meanwhile, being human I have to 
> > 
> > rest. I took no sleep for over 60 hours. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Ever yours truly, 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > KOOT' HOOMI. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > And few sight over Collected writings, perhaps she have written 
> more 
> > 
> > in secret doctrine and key to theosophy, but I will let it for now: 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > HPB.Collected writings IV 
> > 
> > Page 536 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > vehicles, if preferred, as to facilitate the manifestation of his 
> > 
> > individuality in its original nature. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > My own inference is that Advaita and this coincide, the former 
> > 
> > considering that Jivan is Parabrahm, modified by the latter into 
> > 
> > "Jivan is a part only of Parabrahm." 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > We believe not. A true esoteric Vedantic Advaitee would say: Aham 
> eva 
> > 
> > Parambrahm, "I am also Parabrahm." In its external manifestation 
> > 
> > Jivan may be regarded as a distinct individuality? the latter a 
> maya; 
> > 
> > in its essence or nature Jivan is?Parabrahm, the consciousness of 
> the 
> > 
> > Paramatma manifesting through, and existing solely in, the 
> aggregated 
> > 
> > Jivans viewed collectively. A creek in the shore of the ocean is 
> one, 
> > 
> > so long only as the land it stretches upon is not redeemed. Forced 
> > 
> > back, its water becomes the ocean. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Considered in this manner, there is one Infinite, made up of 
> > 
> > numberless infinites. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > We are at a loss to know what our learned brother can mean by Jivan 
> > 
> > being "dependent" on the whole, unless "inseparable from" is meant. 
> > 
> > If the whole is "all-pervading" and "infinite," all its parts must 
> be 
> > 
> > indivisibly linked together. The idea of separation involves the 
> > 
> > possibility of a vacuum?a portion of space or time where the whole 
> is 
> > 
> > supposed to be absent from some given point. Hence the absurdity of 
> > 
> > speaking of the parts of one Infinite being also infinite. To 
> > 
> > illustrate geometrically, suppose there is an infinite line, which 
> > 
> > has neither a beginning nor end. Its parts cannot also be infinite, 
> > 
> > for when you say "parts," they must have a beginning and end; or, 
> in 
> > 
> > other words, they must be finite, either at one or the other end, 
> > 
> > which is as evident a fallacy as to speak of an immortal soul which 
> > 
> > was at some time created?thus implying a beginning to that which, 
> if 
> > 
> > the word has any sense, is eternal. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Jiva, Iswara and Maya are considered to be real, all the three in 
> > 
> > this light, i.e., as long as anything has existence, it is real or 
> > 
> > true, although that existence may not last forever. The Advaitee 
> says 
> > 
> > that only that which is immutable is true, and all things temporary 
> > 
> > and liable to change are illusionary; whereas the 
> Vi&#347;ishtadvaite e 
> > 
> > says that as immutability is real in the eternity, so mutability is 
> > 
> > also real for the time being, and so long as there is no change. My 
> > 
> > own inference is that all the difficulty here lies in the words, 
> but 
> > 
> > that the idea is one. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Collected writings VIII 
> > 
> > Page 88 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > unknown principle called Parabrahman, Âdi-Buddha, the "One and 
> > 
> > Eternal Wisdom." 
> > 
> > If there is a still greater absurdity than to speak of a cruel God: 
> > 
> > it is to admit that God, the Great, Absolute Whole, could ever 
> > 
> > interfere in terrestrial or human affairs. The infinite cannot 
> > 
> > associate with the finite; the unconditioned ignores the 
> conditioned 
> > 
> > and the limited. The absolute "Intelligence- Wisdom" cannot act in 
> the 
> > 
> > restricted space of a small globe. It is omnipresent and latent in 
> > 
> > the Kosmos, infinite as itself. We find its only truly active 
> > 
> > manifestation in humanity as a whole, composed as it is of stray 
> > 
> > sparks, finite in their objective duration, eternal in their 
> essence, 
> > 
> > issuing from that Hearth without beginning or end. Therefore, the 
> > 
> > only God whom we should serve is Humanity, and our only cult should 
> > 
> > be the love of our fellow man. Doing evil towards him, we wound God 
> > 
> > and make him suffer. When we deny our brotherly duties and refuse 
> to 
> > 
> > consider a pagan as well as a European as our brother, we deny God. 
> > 
> > This is our religion and our dogmas. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "christinaleestemak er" 
> > 
> > wrote: 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > Yes Cass, but than( after that trillion of years) we may hope 
> that 
> > 
> > > the infinite have taken place over the finite. 
> > 
> > > Christina 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Cass Silva 
> wrote: 
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > Within a cycle there is Christina - Each Manvantara has its 
> > 
> > Pralaya 
> > 
> > > - so one could argue that infinity resides in pre-pralaya and all 
> > 
> > > else that is a result of it is still finite - even if we are 
> > 
> > talking 
> > 
> > > about trillions of our years. 
> > 
> > > > Cass 
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > --- On Fri, 23/1/09, christinaleestemake r 
> > 
> > > wrote: 
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > From: christinaleestemake r 
> > 
> > > > Subject: 1. Maya . 2.Re: Theos-World Re: Our latest news: 
> America 
> > 
> > > run on guns!!! 
> > 
> > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> > 
> > > > Received: Friday, 23 January, 2009, 8:16 AM 
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > As I understand well, if it is to be measured it is finite 
> (Maya) 
> > 
> > so 
> > 
> > > > for that it is not the alpha and omega the infinite, what is 
> the 
> > 
> > > only 
> > 
> > > > reality,which is not to be measured for there is no beginning 
> and 
> > 
> > > no 
> > 
> > > > end. 
> > 
> > > > Christina 
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Jayananda Hiranandani 
> > 
> > > > wrote: 
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > The root of word maya, is ma (a is long as in father). It 
> means 
> > 
> > > > measure, which makes it finite. In Sindhi, (an Indo-Aryan 
> > 
> > language 
> > 
> > > > with many Sanskrit words, perhaps 70 per cent), the word for 
> > 
> > > measure 
> > 
> > > > is mapa (first a is long as in father, the second is short as 
> in 
> > 
> > > > final). 
> > 
> > > > > Â 
> > 
> > > > > Jayananda H. Hiranandani 
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > --- On Thu, 1/22/09, christinaleestemake r 
> > 
> > > > wrote: 
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > From: christinaleestemake r 
> > 
> > > > > Subject: Theos-World Re: Our latest news: America run on 
> guns!!! 
> > 
> > > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> > 
> > > > > Date: Thursday, January 22, 2009, 10:59 AM 
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > Mistake need to read for infinite -- FINITE=Maya 
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > Infinite is NOT 
> > 
> > > > > Christina 
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "christinaleestemak er" 
> > 
> > > > > wrote: 
> > 
> > > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > > Don't worry Adalasie and others. 
> > 
> > > > > > All what is infinite is MAYA. 
> > 
> > > > > > But I am glad I don't live in America. ( 70 % of the 
> > 
> > Americans 
> > 
> > > > > > bought a gun (nov-dec and jan) accept the ones already have 
> > 
> > one. 
> > 
> > > > > > I don't think they use it for hunting on hares! 
> > 
> > > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > > PS Here it is forbidden to have a gun, only policeman may 
> > 
> > have 
> > 
> > > > and 
> > 
> > > > > > only use in vital threat 
> > 
> > > > > > Christina 
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> > > > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a 
> > 
> > smarter 
> > 
> > > inbox. Take a look http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/smarterinbo x 
> > 
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