Theos-Talk Archives (January 2009 Message tt00593)

Christina,
   Here is a view. In the Shiva Sutra's although Shiva is in a common sense popularized as "Creator - Destroyer" in an inner sense he is called "Creator - Transformer", Transformation is a better word for the transformation from manisfestation to the absolute.

>>>www.kheper.net/topics/Trika/Pancakrtya.htm<<<

Regards,
John

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "christinaleestemaker" <christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com> 
Right, only one thing I have a little trouble with and that is that 
in pralaya you call: the Will to destroy, I think there is a better 
word for, the Will to keeep things in rest.For later new creations.
Destroy is a finite definition.Than it would like we take not 
rememberance with us.The one state flows always cumulative over in 
the next.
Christina

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Martin <Mvandertak@...> wrote:
>
> Christina:
> 
> Zakk, Jerry and others are discussing this and nother matters very 
extensively. By their intellectual approach you may understand the 
mind has to go through an intellectual state, driven by the power of 
instinct, to reach pure Intuïtion, which doesn't need words or form. 
Like Ideas have no need of words or form. However as soon as the 
Ideas reach a world and its inhabitants, they need form and words to 
be understood by them and to be realised.
> This realisation is like a piece of music, it comes and it dies 
out. Illusion yes, beautifull when in perfect harmony, noise at its 
worst.
> It is eternal Law which causes Ideas to appear in any world to be 
realised and maintained if the effect improves life of the 
inhabitants, who are 'crystalised' music as well.
> Above Ideas is the Cosmic Will, the Will to create and in Pralaya, 
the Will to destroy.
> 
> To call the earth a speck of dirt is very disrespectfull for the 
composition of music, made by the Dzyan Chohans. Of course earth's 
music could improve, but tell me how many of you are musicians?
> A 'Brotherhood of Humanity' is a piece of music, which is written 
but not finished. The earth needs to be worked upon to be a good 
instrument to reflect the harmonious tunes of the Human Soul. As long 
as we do not understand, all is music, we will be in trouble, every 
time...trillions of years or merely a 100 years in this Kali Yuga?
> As for phenomena, music stirs the soul, need I say more?
> 
> --- On Fri, 1/23/09, christinaleestemaker 
<christinaleestemaker@...> wrote:
> From: christinaleestemaker <christinaleestemaker@...>
> Subject: Theos-World Re: 1. Maya .Finite and infinite
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 7:43 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what I have found over the finite and infinite 
in Mahatma 
> 
> letter 6 on internet.
> 
> Plato was right: ideas rule the world; and, as men's minds will 
> 
> receive new ideas, laying aside the old and effete, the world will 
> 
> advance: mighty revolutions will spring from them; creeds and even 
> 
> powers will crumble before their onward march crushed by the 
> 
> irresistible force. It will be just as impossible to resist their 
> 
> influx, when the time comes, as to stay the progress of the tide. 
But 
> 
> all this will come gradually on, and before it comes we have a duty 
> 
> set before us; that of sweeping away as much as possible the dross 
> 
> left to us by our pious forefathers. New ideas have to be planted 
on 
> 
> clean places, for these ideas touch upon the most momentous 
subjects. 
> 
> It is not physical phenomena but these universal ideas that we 
study, 
> 
> as to comprehend the former, we have to first understand the 
latter. 
> 
> They touch man's true position in the universe, in relation to his 
> 
> previous and future births; his origin and ultimate destiny; the 
> 
> relation of the mortal to the immortal; of the temporary to the 
> 
> eternal; of the finite to the infinite; ideas larger, grander, more 
> 
> comprehensive, recognising the universal reign of Immutable Law, 
> 
> unchanging and unchangeable in regard to which there is only an 
> 
> ETERNAL Now, while to uninitiated mortals time is past or future as 
> 
> related to their finite existence on this material speck of dirt. 
> 
> This is what we study and what many have solved.
> 
> 
> 
> And now it is your province to decide which will you have: the 
> 
> highest philosophy or simple exhibitions of occult powers. Of 
course 
> 
> this is by far not the last word between us and -- you will have 
time 
> 
> to think it over. The Chiefs want a "Brotherhood of Humanity," a 
real 
> 
> Universal Fraternity started; an institution which would make 
itself 
> 
> known throughout the world and arrest the attention of the highest 
> 
> minds. I will send you my Essay. Will you be my co-worker and 
> 
> patiently wait for minor phenomena? I think I foresee the answer. 
At 
> 
> all events the holy lamp of spiritual light burning in you (however 
> 
> dimly) there is hope for you, and -- for me, also. Yes; put 
yourself 
> 
> in search after natives if there are no English people to be had. 
But 
> 
> think you, the spirit and power of persecution gone from this 
> 
> enlightened age? Time will prove. Meanwhile, being human I have to 
> 
> rest. I took no sleep for over 60 hours.
> 
> 
> 
> Ever yours truly,
> 
> 
> 
> KOOT' HOOMI. 
> 
> 
> 
> And few sight over Collected writings, perhaps she have written 
more 
> 
> in secret doctrine and key to theosophy, but I will let it for now:
> 
> 
> 
> HPB.Collected writings IV
> 
> Page 536
> 
> 
> 
> vehicles, if preferred, as to facilitate the manifestation of his 
> 
> individuality in its original nature.
> 
> 
> 
> My own inference is that Advaita and this coincide, the former 
> 
> considering that Jivan is Parabrahm, modified by the latter into 
> 
> "Jivan is a part only of Parabrahm."
> 
> 
> 
> We believe not. A true esoteric Vedantic Advaitee would say: Aham 
eva 
> 
> Parambrahm, "I am also Parabrahm." In its external manifestation 
> 
> Jivan may be regarded as a distinct individuality? the latter a 
maya; 
> 
> in its essence or nature Jivan is?Parabrahm, the consciousness of 
the 
> 
> Paramatma manifesting through, and existing solely in, the 
aggregated 
> 
> Jivans viewed collectively. A creek in the shore of the ocean is 
one, 
> 
> so long only as the land it stretches upon is not redeemed. Forced 
> 
> back, its water becomes the ocean.
> 
> 
> 
> Considered in this manner, there is one Infinite, made up of 
> 
> numberless infinites.
> 
> 
> 
> We are at a loss to know what our learned brother can mean by Jivan 
> 
> being "dependent" on the whole, unless "inseparable from" is meant. 
> 
> If the whole is "all-pervading" and "infinite," all its parts must 
be 
> 
> indivisibly linked together. The idea of separation involves the 
> 
> possibility of a vacuum?a portion of space or time where the whole 
is 
> 
> supposed to be absent from some given point. Hence the absurdity of 
> 
> speaking of the parts of one Infinite being also infinite. To 
> 
> illustrate geometrically, suppose there is an infinite line, which 
> 
> has neither a beginning nor end. Its parts cannot also be infinite, 
> 
> for when you say "parts," they must have a beginning and end; or, 
in 
> 
> other words, they must be finite, either at one or the other end, 
> 
> which is as evident a fallacy as to speak of an immortal soul which 
> 
> was at some time created?thus implying a beginning to that which, 
if 
> 
> the word has any sense, is eternal.
> 
> 
> 
> Jiva, Iswara and Maya are considered to be real, all the three in 
> 
> this light, i.e., as long as anything has existence, it is real or 
> 
> true, although that existence may not last forever. The Advaitee 
says 
> 
> that only that which is immutable is true, and all things temporary 
> 
> and liable to change are illusionary; whereas the 
Vi&#347;ishtadvaite e 
> 
> says that as immutability is real in the eternity, so mutability is 
> 
> also real for the time being, and so long as there is no change. My 
> 
> own inference is that all the difficulty here lies in the words, 
but 
> 
> that the idea is one. 
> 
> 
> 
> Collected writings VIII
> 
> Page 88
> 
> 
> 
> unknown principle called Parabrahman, Âdi-Buddha, the "One and 
> 
> Eternal Wisdom."
> 
> If there is a still greater absurdity than to speak of a cruel God: 
> 
> it is to admit that God, the Great, Absolute Whole, could ever 
> 
> interfere in terrestrial or human affairs. The infinite cannot 
> 
> associate with the finite; the unconditioned ignores the 
conditioned 
> 
> and the limited. The absolute "Intelligence- Wisdom" cannot act in 
the 
> 
> restricted space of a small globe. It is omnipresent and latent in 
> 
> the Kosmos, infinite as itself. We find its only truly active 
> 
> manifestation in humanity as a whole, composed as it is of stray 
> 
> sparks, finite in their objective duration, eternal in their 
essence, 
> 
> issuing from that Hearth without beginning or end. Therefore, the 
> 
> only God whom we should serve is Humanity, and our only cult should 
> 
> be the love of our fellow man. Doing evil towards him, we wound God 
> 
> and make him suffer. When we deny our brotherly duties and refuse 
to 
> 
> consider a pagan as well as a European as our brother, we deny God. 
> 
> This is our religion and our dogmas.
> 
> 
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "christinaleestemak er" 
> 
> <christinaleestemak er@> wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> > Yes Cass, but than( after that trillion of years) we may hope 
that 
> 
> > the infinite have taken place over the finite.
> 
> > Christina
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@ > 
wrote:
> 
> > >
> 
> > > Within a cycle there is Christina - Each Manvantara has its 
> 
> Pralaya 
> 
> > - so one could argue that infinity resides in pre-pralaya and all 
> 
> > else that is a result of it is still finite - even if we are 
> 
> talking 
> 
> > about trillions of our years.
> 
> > > Cass
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > --- On Fri, 23/1/09, christinaleestemake r 
> 
> > <christinaleestemak er@> wrote:
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > From: christinaleestemake r <christinaleestemak er@>
> 
> > > Subject: 1. Maya . 2.Re: Theos-World Re: Our latest news: 
America 
> 
> > run on guns!!!
> 
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> 
> > > Received: Friday, 23 January, 2009, 8:16 AM
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > As I understand well, if it is to be measured it is finite
(Maya) 
> 
> so 
> 
> > > for that it is not the alpha and omega the infinite, what is 
the 
> 
> > only 
> 
> > > reality,which is not to be measured for there is no beginning 
and 
> 
> > no 
> 
> > > end.
> 
> > > Christina
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Jayananda Hiranandani 
> 
> > > <professorjaya@ ...> wrote:
> 
> > > >
> 
> > > > The root of word maya, is ma (a is long as in father). It 
means 
> 
> > > measure, which makes it finite. In Sindhi, (an Indo-Aryan 
> 
> language 
> 
> > > with many Sanskrit words, perhaps 70 per cent), the word for 
> 
> > measure 
> 
> > > is mapa (first a is long as in father, the second is short as 
in 
> 
> > > final).
> 
> > > > Â 
> 
> > > > Jayananda H. Hiranandani
> 
> > > > 
> 
> > > > --- On Thu, 1/22/09, christinaleestemake r 
> 
> > > <christinaleestemak er@> wrote:
> 
> > > > 
> 
> > > > From: christinaleestemake r <christinaleestemak er@>
> 
> > > > Subject: Theos-World Re: Our latest news: America run on 
guns!!!
> 
> > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> 
> > > > Date: Thursday, January 22, 2009, 10:59 AM
> 
> > > > 
> 
> > > > 
> 
> > > > 
> 
> > > > 
> 
> > > > 
> 
> > > > 
> 
> > > > Mistake need to read for infinite -- FINITE=Maya
> 
> > > > 
> 
> > > > Infinite is NOT
> 
> > > > Christina
> 
> > > > 
> 
> > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "christinaleestemak er" 
> 
> > > > <christinaleestemak er@> wrote:
> 
> > > > >
> 
> > > > > Don't worry Adalasie and others.
> 
> > > > > All what is infinite is MAYA.
> 
> > > > > But I am glad I don't live in America. ( 70 % of the 
> 
> Americans 
> 
> > > > > bought a gun (nov-dec and jan) accept the ones already have 
> 
> one.
> 
> > > > > I don't think they use it for hunting on hares!
> 
> > > > > 
> 
> > > > > PS Here it is forbidden to have a gun, only policeman may 
> 
> have 
> 
> > > and 
> 
> > > > > only use in vital threat
> 
> > > > > Christina
> 
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> > > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a 
> 
> smarter 
> 
> > inbox. Take a look http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/smarterinbo x
> 
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