Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
Jan 16, 2009 08:07 PM
by Cass Silva
I was answering John -Âno not John the Baptist although no one has as yet claimed to be his reincarnation - so he's up for grabs
lol
Cass
________________________________
From: christinaleestemaker <christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com>
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 16 January, 2009 11:25:36 AM
Subject: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
The baptist????? ????
--- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@ ...> wrote:
>
> I am sure he is John - nevertheless - he's not my man
>
> Cass
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> > From: "Augoeides-222@ ..." <Augoeides-222@ ...>
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > Sent: Friday, 16 January, 2009 5:36:50 AM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> >
> > Cass,
> > Satya Sai Baba of Shirdi is a cool dude even if he does walk
behind on the right
> > side with a small enigmatic smile and bright eyes.
> >
> > Regards,
> > John
> >
> > ------------ -- Original message ------------ --
> > From: Cass Silva
> > No he is not for me Morten - too much controversy around him -
claims of sexual
> > abuse too!
> > Cass
> > Sathya Sai Baba on November 23, 1926[1][2] Ãâ" or later than
1927[3] Ãâ" with the
> > family name of "Ratnakaram" ,[4] and is a controversial[ 5] South
Indian guru
> > controversially described by his followers as a Godman[1][6] and
a miracle
> > worker.[7][8] Several controversies including of homosexual abuse
[5], deciet[5]
> > and economic offences[5] surround Sathyanarayana Raju. A BBC
Documentary notes
> > that such controversies have persisted for at least 30 years [5].
The website of
> > the American Embassy in Delhi, referring to Sai Baba[5], warns
Americans
> > visiting Andhra Pradesh of a "noted godman" who reportedly
engages in
> > "inappropriate sexual behaviour" with young male devotees.[5]
> > According to the Sathya Sai Organization there are an estimated
1,200 Sathya Sai
> > Baba Centers in 114 countries world-wide.[ 9] The number of Sathya
Sai Baba
> > adherents is estimated sometimes as around 6 million, and
followers cite "50 to
> > 100 million."[10] He is considered by his followers to be an
avatar and the
> > reincarnation of the saint Sai Baba of Shirdi, however this has
been strongly
> > disputed
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > From: Morten Nymann Olesen
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, 15 January, 2009 3:58:59 AM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> >
> > Dear friends and Cass
> >
> > My views are:
> >
> > Have you read Sathya Sai Baba's books with the SAME emphasis and
compared them
> > with J. Krishnamurti' s?
> > Commercials are not always objective. I think we know that.
> >
> > Try this easy one: GUIDE TO INDIAN CULTURE AND SPIRITUALITY (Q &
A's between Sai
> > Baba and a Seeker).
> > http://sss.vn. ua/guide_ in.htm
> >
> > Here are writings given by Sathya Sai Baba - taken down by a near
follow named
> > N. Kasturi.
> > http://www.sssbpt. info
> >
> > A book about the Avatar and the allegations etc etc.
> > "SATHYA SAI BABA AS AVATAR" by Michael James Spurr, 2007, 450
pages
> > http://ir.canterbur y.ac.nz/bitstrea m/10092/1025/ 1/thesis_
fulltext. pdf
> >
> > Sathya Sai Baba's teachings are called Purusothama Yoga
(Something like - Karma,
> > Bakhti, Jnana blended all one in one. Or something like the heart
path of
> > Adwaita Vedanta.)
> >
> > - - -
> > Those interested will find a disagreement in dead letters between
Sai Baba and
> > H. P. Blavatsky on when the Kali Yuga began.
> > One will also find that Sathya Sai Baba's teaching are very
synthetic in nature,
> > similar to H. P. Blavatsky's. Whereas J. Krishnamurti' s was only
a
> > pseudo-Adwaita teaching where he almost always referred to
himself and never to
> > the sages and Avatars of the ancient times. And almost never
comparing his words
> > with others. No chela teachings like HPB and Sathya Sai Baba are
in agreement
> > about.
> >
> > And when you read H. P. Blavatsky's book a Key to Theosophy you
will understand
> > the IMPORTANCE of seeking to promote, the mutual essence of the
wisdom teachings
> > from a religions of ancient past and present - so to seek to END
all the
> > strifes. And NOT to do like J. Krishnamurti - merely creating his
own doctrine
> > and sect, without really relating it to anything else but almost
only his own
> > thoughts.
> >
> > But these are my views, and are written so that some of you might
catch a
> > glimpse of the true light and not a fanatical one no matter who
is right or
> > wrong.
> >
> > M. Sufilight
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Cass Silva
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 2:26 AM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> >
> > I can only speak for myself - I gained considerable knowledge
from Krishnamurti
> > concerning the ego and how it operates.
> > From Sai Baba all I learnt was the materialism of trinkets
> >
> > Cass
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > From: Morten Nymann Olesen
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, 14 January, 2009 3:58:27 AM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> >
> > Dear friends and Cass
> >
> > My views are:
> >
> > You wrote:
> > "I believe Krishnamurti fulfilled Blavatsky prediction that a
Teacher would
> > come"
> >
> > H. P. Blavatsky wrote the following in her famous book The Secret
Doctrine
> > (Volume I + II):
> >
> > "The same may be said of the whole Esoteric system. One turn of
the key, and no
> > more, was given in "ISIS." Much more is explained in these
volumes. In those
> > days the writer hardly knew the language in which the work was
written, and the
> > disclosure of many things, freely spoken about now, was
forbidden. In Century
> > the Twentieth some disciple more informed, and far better fitted,
may be sent by
> > the Masters of Wisdom to give final and irrefutable proofs that
there exists a
> > Science called Gupta-Vidya; and that, like the once-mysterious
sources of the
> > Nile, the source of all religions and philosophies now known to
the world has
> > been for many ages forgotten and lost to men, but is at last
found."
> > (H. P. Blavatsky "The Secret Doctrine", vol. 1., ULT-edition,
Facsimile of the
> > original edition from 1888 ).
> >
> > - - -
> >
> > Now if J. Krishnamurti fulfilled H. P. Blavatsky's prediction he
must have been
> > giving - as Blavatsky said in the above - "final and irrefutable
proofs that
> > there exists a Science called Gupta-Vidya; and that, like the
once-mysterious
> > sources of the Nile, the source of all religions and philosophies
now known to
> > the world has been for many ages forgotten and lost to men, but
is at last
> > found."
> >
> > Where were and are those - quoted - "irrefutable proofs" given by
J.
> > Krishnamurti?
> > And if Dalai Lama is the hot shot, where were or are his - quoted
- "irrefutable
> > proofs"?
> > And C. W. Leadbeater, who only were a clairvoyant for about 16
years before he
> > singlehandedly discovered, lo, the Teacher of the AGE - and not
the teacher of
> > the decade, - where was his - quoted - "irrefutable proofs" on
Gupta Vidya?
> >
> > I conclude there were and are none yet.
> > Whereas - if anyone since 1925 until 2009 - should we said to
have given such a
> > proof, it aught to be Sathya Sai Baba despite the many bad
romours about him.
> >
> > Is there anyone who disagree with me on this?
> >
> > Although, I am not the one saying that Sathya Sai Baba is the
Avatar of the Age,
> > despite he him self are saying that.
> >
> > M. Sufilight
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Cass Silva
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 3:57 AM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> >
> > How would I know?
> > Cass
> > Mr. J.M. Prentice followed, and Dawn is able to reproduce his
eloquent address
> > in full. He said: -
> > "In view of the importance of this occasion, in view of the
importance of the
> > work we are starting tonight, I want - by way of introduction -
to refer to
> > something which I have never hitherto referred to in public: I
want to tell you
> > the circumstances in which H.P.B. died. I wish you to go back
with me some
> > thirty-two years and picture a room - half bedroom, half study,
and see there an
> > old woman, worn out in the work of Humanity, diseased and ill,
gasping out her
> > last few life-breaths. And I want you to note that as she dies a
wave of despair
> > well-nigh engulfs her, despair not for herself, but for the
movement to which
> > she has devoted her life. See her seated in a great arm-chair,
and hear the last
> > words which she whispers ere she dies: "Tell Annie to keep the
link unbroken."
> > That was the link with the Great Powers which were behind the
Society and the
> > White Lodge which was responsible for bringing it into
> > existence. I want to tell you something of the happenings in the
years that have
> > followed since then, and how Annie, who is, of course, Mrs.
Besant, has acted in
> > regard to keeping the link unbroken. It is a sad story. It is the
story of one
> > who failed to reach the level of greatness indicated for her, who
failed so
> > utterly as to make H.P.B.'s despair understandable now.
> > "Within two years of Blavatsky's death the lust for power that
has been such a
> > feature of Mrs. Besant's career manifested itself, and that
dominant pride of
> > personality that H.P.B. had so severely rebuked, had shown
itself. In 1892
> > (3-4), there was - what shall I call it? - a conflict between two
of the
> > personalities that were left in charge of the movement, and the
result of the
> > clash was the ruinous experience known as the Judge secession in
1895. There is
> > little profit in reviewing all the details, but I want to say
this: it was
> > largely the result of Annie Besant's work, of her failure to
understand the
> > principles of universal brotherhood, that the movement was well-
nigh wrecked
> > then. That section of the movement which followed Mr. Judge in
1895 passed,
> > after his death in 1896, into the hands of Mrs. Katherine
Tingley, who is still
> > the leader of a comparatively small section of the Theosophical
Society, and who
> > is doing good work.
> > She has devoted herself to the cause of Universal Brotherhood and
world peace,
> > and we recognize the value of the work she has done in America,
Holland, and the
> > Scandinavian countries; but she again, because of this terrific
lust for power,
> > was not able to control even that portion of the movement which
came under her
> > control, so there was a further split, and that movement, that
second secession,
> > is now known as The United Lodge of Theosophists, which in turn
is doing a
> > splendid work, more especially in republishing Blavatsky's books
exactly as she
> > wrote them, and not as they have been re-edited since.
> > "The years that followed the Judge secession were marked by the
introduction of
> > Neo-Theosophy. Slowly there emerges the sinister figure of an old
friend - C.W.
> > Leadbeater. He
> > represents all that is worst in the whole movement. In 1906, and
right on until
> > 1908, there were launched round him a series of scandals that are
so unsavory
> > that I am not going to inflict any of them on you. He resigned in
1906, and, as
> > Mr. Gillespie has told you, he went out originally with the
unsparing
> > condemnation of Mrs. Besant. However, she very soon brought him
back, because
> > she found him necessary in supplying her with all the psychic
stuff requisite to
> > the career on which she found herself embarked. She was not able
to get all the
> > choice bits of psychic information required to feed the flock of
devotees with
> > which she had surrounded herself, so, as our sinister friend had
already
> > succeeded in cultivating a world-wide impression that he was the
greatest
> > clairvoyant in existence, he was recalled to assist her.
Moreover, in connection
> > with the appearance of some questionable spooks that were
construed in the
> > Persons of the Masters at the death-bed
> > of the President-Founder, Colonel Olcott, Leadbeater had
performed a signal
> > service to Mrs. Besant by declaring, from the kindly shelter of a
Sicilian villa
> > to which he had retired in the hour of his downfall, that they
were genuine.
> > True, he was not there, and knew nothing of what had actually
happened; but so
> > cleverly had he worked himself in a position of being the
mouthpiece of the
> > Masters, that his testimony was sufficient to swing over many of
the doubters,
> > and so, by his help, Mrs. Besant had been elected President.
> > "In 1908 he triumphantly returned to the movement, and very
shortly we see the
> > first evidences of a plan which had been slowly maturing in his
mind - the first
> > direct evidence of absolute departure from Universal Brotherhood,
and the
> > neutrality that goes with it is in the beginnings of the "Order
of the Star in
> > the East." I know that we were told, until we were sick of
listening to it, that
> > the O.S.E. had no direct or official connection with the
Theosophical Society;
> > but it was one of the first fruits of Neo-Theosophy, it fastened
itself on to
> > the movement, and the parasitic growth has drawn its very life
therefrom ever
> > since.
> > "In 1911-12 there was another split. If there is anything in the
world that Mrs.
> > Besant will not tolerate, it is the possibility of a rival. She
saw one in the
> > person of Dr. Rudolph Steiner. It did not take long for Mrs.
Besant to
> > inaugurate a plan of campaign. She saw fit to expel the whole of
the German
> > Section of 2,500 members. And why? What do you think was her
excuse for
> > literally kicking out all these members? Because, she said, Dr.
Steiner was
> > giving a presentation of Theosophy which was Christian in its
nature, that it
> > would probably be offensive to non-Christian members in other
parts of the
> > world. And yet she now does everything she possibly can to foster
and enliven
> > the Liberal Catholic Church, another parasitic growth that has
caused endless
> > trouble in regard to the free-running life of the Society. The
Liberal Catholic
> > Church is much more likely to offend non-Christian Theosophists
than ever was
> > Dr. Steiner's presentation
> > of Theosophy. Indeed, it has offended many of us who were
nominally Christian
> > Theosophists - Christian by accident of birth, but Theosophists
by conviction
> > and long study. This is just a little example of the inconstancy
that goes with
> > Neo-Theosophy. And there are dozens of others. The chain that
H.P.B. forged by
> > her selfless service to Humanity has been broken, not once, but
dozens of times,
> > the chain that linked the world of today with all the splendid
workers of the
> > past, and which should have gone on into the future in unbroken
splendor, has
> > been broken into fragments because "Annie" was unfaithful to the
charge given to
> > her by the dying Blavatsky, and had failed to keep the particular
link delivered
> > into her hands unbroken.
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > From: Morten Nymann Olesen
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, 13 January, 2009 4:54:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> >
> > And which of them gace "irrefutable proof of Gupta-Vidya" ?
> >
> > Dalai Lama, J. Krushnamurti, or C. W. Leadbeater?
> >
> > M. Sufilight
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: nhcareyta
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 2:02 AM
> > Subject: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> >
> > Dear Cass
> >
> > If I may add to your discussion, your point concerning
> > a teacher rather than Messiah is, from my perspective,
> > well made and significant.
> >
> > Moreover, Madame Blavatsky's words "...numerous and
> > united body of people..." and "..an organisation awaiting
> > his arrival..." are also significant.
> >
> > As I have mentioned previously, in 1973 the Dalai Lama
> > first visited the West in Europe.
> > He found "...numerous and united body of people..."
> > and an organisational structure ready for his teachings.
> > Many of these teachings are theosophical and from Madame
> > Blavatsky's masters' tradition.
> > She was entrusted to bring some of these same teachings to
> > the West a century earlier.
> > The Dalai Lama has certainly been a torchbearer for the light
> > of compassion and non-violence in the world.
> > And contrary to most religions, he also teaches we have to
> > discover the nature of our self, by ourselves, through
> > studying our mind and not through blindly following dogma,
> > despite his tradition's many dogmas.
> >
> > Kind regards
> > Nigel
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Cass Silva wrote:
> > >
> > > No I haven't - Blavatsky stated "the next impulse will find a
> > numerous and united body
> > > of people ready to welcome the new torch-bearer of Truth. He
will
> > find the minds of men prepared for his message, a language ready
for
> > him in which to clothe the new truths he brings, an organization
> > awaiting his arrival . . . ." The Key to Theosophy, pp. 306-7.
> > Italics added.
> > >
> > > She stated a "new torch-bearer of Truth" which isn't the same
thing
> > as a 'new messiah' - I see no problem in translating torch bearer
> > into teacher?
> > >
> > > Cass
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > > From: Morten Nymann Olesen
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > > Sent: Sunday, 11 January, 2009 8:41:05 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> > >
> > >
> > > No.
> > > You wrote:
> > > "I believe Krishnamurti fulfilled Blavatsky prediction that a
> > Teacher would come"
> > >
> > > I take it that you have changed your mind or wanted to tell me
> > something else.
> > >
> > > - - -
> > >
> > > And you did not answer my questions.
> > > And I ask myself why.
> > >
> > > M. Sufilight
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Cass Silva
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 3:29 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> > >
> > > As I have said he was a lesser teacher - as we have mini cycles
we
> > also have mini teachers - if you get my point
> > > Cass
> > >
> > > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > > From: Morten Nymann Olesen
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > > Sent: Saturday, 10 January, 2009 8:55:54 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> > >
> > > Dear friends and Cass
> > >
> > > My views are:
> > >
> > > Cass wrote:
> > > "I believe Krishnamurti fulfilled Blavatsky prediction that a
> > Teacher would come"
> > >
> > > My answer:
> > > I see no reason to believe this. A Trre is known on its fruits.
> > >
> > > ". . .during the last quarter of every hundred years an attempt
is
> > made by those 'Masters' . . . to help on the spiritual progress
of
> > Humanity in a marked and definite way. Towards the close of each
> > century you will invariably find that an outpouring or upheaval
of
> > spirituality - or call it mysticism if you prefer - has taken
place.
> > Some one or more persons have appeared in the world as their
agents,
> > and a greater or less amount of occult knowledge and teaching has
> > been given out . . . . .If the present attempt, in the form of
our
> > Society, succeeds better than its predecessors have done, then it
> > will be in existence as an organized, living and healthy body
when
> > the time comes for the effort of the XXth century. The general
> > condition of men's minds and hearts will have been improved and
> > purified by the spread of its teachings . . . . but besides a
large
> > and accessible literature ready to men's hands, the next impulse
will
> > find a numerous and united body
> > > of people ready to welcome the new torch-bearer of Truth. He
will
> > find the minds of men prepared for his message, a language ready
for
> > him in which to clothe the new truths he brings, an organization
> > awaiting his arrival . . . ." The Key to Theosophy, pp. 306-7.
> > Italics added.
> > >
> > > My answer:
> > >
> > > 1.
> > > I did not see an Organisation awaiting his (J. Krishnamurti' s)
> > arrival. He was made a Messiah by the mis-conduct C. W.
Leadbeater to
> > promote his and Annie Besants fantasies about a Messiah in the
flesh
> > as something theosophical.
> > >
> > > 2.
> > > He (J. Krishnamurti' s) if true, came 50 years earlier than
> > predicted by H. P. Blavatsky. Do any of youreally HONESTLY within
> > your minds find it to be possible that H. P. Blavatsky and her
> > Masters was so bad in calculating when a new out-pouring would
come?
> > >
> > > If you compare J. Krishnamurti with other contemporary
spiritual
> > teacher and later teacher I find him to be a gnat in front of an
> > elephant when compared with for instance persons like Idries
Shah's
> > teachings, Sathya Sai Baba's teachings, and even the persons
behind
> > the Disclosure Project on Ufology.
> > >
> > > 3.
> > > Do you honstely find his (J. Krishnamurti' s) messages to be
NEW?
> > >
> > > 4.
> > > The body was not "united". It exploded thanks to C. W.
Leadbeater
> > and Annie Bests misconducts. How on earth can people find
themselves
> > believing, that the World Teacher of the Age was discovered
> > SINGLEHANDEDLY by a man who just 3 years earlier was thrown out
of
> > the TS because of Sexual misconduct, something even admitted by
> > himself? And a "body" which litterally en C. W. Leadbeater was
> > admitted entrance to the Society again, forcing a great number of
> > honest theosophists to resign?
> > > Why should such an activity be the hallmark of theosophical
TRUTH
> > and COMPASSION?
> > > I call it a disgrace!
> > >
> > > 5.
> > > Why do you not find H. P. Blavatsky's masters being more able
to
> > predict the future than Annie Besant's ?
> > >
> > > M. Sufilight
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Cass Silva
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > > Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 12:48 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> > >
> > > It was Leadbeater who pronounced Krishnamurti as being the new
> > World Teacher - Besant went along with it even though she should
have
> > known better - Messiah's are not found on beaches - I believe
> > Krishnamurti fulfilled Blavatsky prediction that a Teacher would
> > come - Leadbeater and Besant presumed the teacher would be a
World
> > Teacher - a christ acting through maitreya - the whole episode
> > confounds me as Besant and Leadbeater must have been aware that
such
> > a World Teacher would not have required any education from those
> > lesser evolved.
> > > I believe Krishnamurti when he reached adulthood recognised the
> > bullshit - that he was not the second christ but could offer the
> > world a new teaching on the self, hence his reasoning to abandon
> > everything that supported the second christ claim.
> > >
> > > Cass
> > >
> > > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > > From: Morten Nymann Olesen
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > > Sent: Saturday, 10 January, 2009 3:13:49 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> > >
> > > Yes. - Let me rephrase it:
> > > And her activities when talking about J. Krishnamurti?
> > >
> > > M. Sufilight
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Cass Silva
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 11:33 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> > >
> > > Morten - you are wrong Besant did not carnalize Jesus
> > > Cass
> > >
> > > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > > From: Morten Nymann Olesen
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > > Sent: Friday, 9 January, 2009 3:58:08 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> > >
> > > Dear Pedro and friends
> > >
> > > My views are:
> > >
> > > Pedro asked:
> > > "Why not burn them in public places, with sufficient notice
given
> > to
> > > those interested to attend?"
> > >
> > > My answer and questions:
> > >
> > > Why especially seek to burn them all like revolutionaries? Why
not
> > just simply avoid selling them?
> > > Let each person have their free choice in accordance with the
Law
> > of Karma. And let us tell people that we do NOT promote and sell
> > these books, and that we have our reasons for not doing so. They
are -
> > perhaps and only perhaps - available at our libraries alongside
the
> > books by the Spiritists, the Christian dogmatics and other
misleading
> > teachings.
> > >
> > > Can you with your compassionate heart and conscience say to any
> > beginner seeker who visits a TS Bookshop say:
> > > "Try this book. It is very good. It was written by one of the
best
> > theosophical authors of the past 150 years, and he was indeed a
good
> > and wise man? Honestly Pedro, if you agree to this I will have to
ask
> > you: What planet do you come from?
> > >
> > > Pedro asked:
> > > "As a matter of fact, why stop at
> > > Leadbeater's books? Why not include Besant's, Arundale's,
> > > Jinarajadasa' s, Sri Ram's, Taimni's and perhaps many others?"
> > >
> > > My answer and question:
> > > Each authors books and literary output have to valued in the
face
> > of their contents and whether the individual author stands as a
> > disgrace to the theosophical teachings. H. P. Blavatsky clearly
spake
> > out against selling all kind of books. And TS Adyar are not
selling
> > all kind of books.
> > >
> > > Today we theosophists are faced with numerous websites bashing
the
> > theosophical teachings because of C. W. Leadbeaters misconduct
and
> > the promotion of a Messiah only 3 years after he were thrown out
of
> > the Society.
> > > You tell them all and tell us, that we and they ALL are wrong
in
> > their and our views on C. W. Leadbeater dammaging behaviour to
the TS
> > teachings as they were given by H. P. Blavatsky and Master.
> > >
> > > I had to start at one place, and choose CWL. And yes, maybe
other
> > authors books aught to be prevented from being sold so not to
damage
> > the WISDOM TEACHINGS of ALL AGES PAST. What do each of you think
the
> > Master would say if you just would go on and sell all and
everything.
> > >
> > > Remember H. P. Blavatsky for instance recommended reading
Hargrave
> > Jennings book about The Rosicrucians: Their Rites and Mysteries
> > (1870). And she did well doing it. Can we say the same about C.
W.
> > Leadbeaters books? No certainly not!
> > >
> > > These are some the differences in view Pedro.
> > > I will avoid to promote something that damages the WISDOM
TEACHINGS
> > of ALL AGES PAST.
> > > Whereas I find that you appearntly would allow this damage to
take
> > full effect in a Christian Church or something almost similar to
it?
> > >
> > > - - -
> > > Now, Annie Besant, C. W. Leadbeater and Alice A. Bailey
promotes
> > the idea of a carnalized saviour in the flesh. They do it by the
use
> > of pseudo-Christian vocabulary, I will admit that. But they DO it.
> > >
> > > H. P. Blavatsky spoke about against this idea of emotionalism.
> > > And when people will teach theosophy they aught to consider the
> > following views by H. P. Blavatsky.
> > >
> > > H.P. Blavatsky wrote in December 1887:
> > >
> > > In CARNALIZING the central figure of the New Testament, in
imposing
> > > the dogma of the Word MADE FLESH, the Latin Church sets up a
> > doctrine
> > > diametrically opposed to the tenets of Buddhist and Hindu
> > Esotericism
> > > and the Greek Gnosis. Therefore, there will always be an abyss
> > > between the East and the West, as long as neither of these
dogmas
> > > yields. Almost 2,000 years of bloody persecution against
HERETICS
> > > and INFIDELS by the Church looms before the Oriental nations to
> > > prevent them from renouncing their philosophic doctrines in
favor of
> > > that which degrades the CHRISTOS principle. [372-373]
> > >
> > > ...the Christians, by localizing and isolating this great
Principle,
> > > and denying it to any other man except Jesus of Nazareth (or the
> > > Nazar), CARNALIZE the Christos of the Gnostics; that alone
prevents
> > > them having any point in common with the disciples of the
Archaic
> > > Wisdom. . . . [374]
> > >
> > > . . . true Theosophists will never accept ...a Christ made
> > > Flesh. . . .[390]
> > >
> > > - - -
> > >
> > > C.W. XII, p. 501-
> > >
> > > (From the "Book of Discipline" in the schools of "Dzyan.")
> > >
> > > "1. To the earnest Disciple his Teacher takes the place of
Father
> > and Mother. For, whereas they gave him his body and its
faculties,
> > its life and casual form, the Teacher shows him how to develop
the
> > inner faculties for the acquisition of the Eternal Wisdom.
> > >
> > > "2. To the Disciple each Fellow-Disciple becomes a Brother and
> > Sister, a portion of himself, for his interests and aspirations
are
> > theirs, his welfare interwoven with theirs, his progress helped
or
> > hindered by their intelligence, morality, and behavior through
the
> > intimacy brought about by their co-discipleship.
> > >
> > > "3. A co-disciple or associate cannot backslide or fall out of
the
> > line without affecting those who stand firm through the
sympathetic
> > tie between themselves and the psychical currents between them
and
> > their Teacher.
> > >
> > > "4. Woe to the deserter, woe also to all who help to bring his
soul
> > to the point where desertion first presents itself before his
mind's
> > eye, as the lesser of two evils. Gold in the crucible is he who
> > stands the melting heat of trial, and lets only the dross be
burnt
> > out of his heart; accursed by Karmic action will find himself he
who
> > throws dross into the melting-pot of discipleship for the
debasement
> > of his fellow-pupil. As the members to the body, so are the
disciples
> > to each other, and to the Head and Heart which teach and nourish
them
> > with the life-stream of Truth.
> > >
> > > "5. As the limbs defend the head and heart of the body they
belong
> > to, so have the disciples to defend the head and the heart of the
> > body they belong to (in this case Theosophy) from injury."
> > >
> > > (From the Letter of a Master.)
> > >
> > > " ... and if the limbs have to defend the head and heart of
their
> > body, then why not so, also, the Disciples their Teachers as
> > representing the SCIENCE of Theosophy which contains and
> > >
> > > ----------
> > > * "So shalt thou be in full accord with all that lives; bear
love
> > to men as though they were thy brother-pupils, disciples of one
> > Teacher, the sons of one sweet mother." (Vide Fragment III, in
Voice
> > of the Silence, p. 49.)
> > > ----------
> > >
> > > Page 503
> > >
> > > includes the 'head' of their privilege, the 'heart' of their
> > spiritual growth? Saith the Scripture: -
> > >
> > > "He who wipeth not away the filth with which the parent's body
may
> > have been defiled by an enemy, neither loves the parent nor
honours
> > himself. He who defendeth not the persecuted and the helpless,
who
> > giveth not of his food to the starving nor draweth water from his
> > well for the thirsty, hath been born too soon in human shape. "
> > >
> > > http://www.katinkah esselink. net/blavatsky/ articles/ v12/
y1890_
> > 052.htm
> > >
> > > M. Sufilight
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Pedro Oliveira
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 8:01 AM
> > > Subject: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> > >
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" > >
theosophy@ .> wrote:
> > >
> > > > So therefore I would keep recommending: Stop selling books by
C.
> > > W. Leadbeater and his LLC Church.
> > >
> > > Why not burn them in public places, with sufficient notice
given to
> > > those interested to attend? As a matter of fact, why stop at
> > > Leadbeater's books? Why not include Besant's, Arundale's,
> > > Jinarajadasa' s, Sri Ram's, Taimni's and perhaps many others?
> > >
> > > In view of the statemts included in it, such as the ones below,
> > > should not "The Secret Doctrine" be also considered as a book
whose
> > > sale may not be allowed to go on?
> > >
> > > "The Aryan views of the symbolism were those of the whole Pagan
> > > world; the Semite interpretations emanated from, and were pre-
> > > eminently those of a small tribe, thus marking its national
> > features
> > > and the idiosyncratic defects that characterize many of the
Jews to
> > > this day - gross realism, selfishness, and sensuality. They had
> > made
> > > a bargain, through their father Jacob, with their tribal deity,
> > self-
> > > exalted above all others, and a covenant that his "seed shall
be as
> > > the dust of the earth"; and that deity could have no better
image
> > > henceforth than that of the symbol of generation, and, as
> > > representation, a number and numbers." (SD, vol. II, p. 470)
> > >
> > > "But Phallic worship has developed only with the gradual loss
of
> > the
> > > keys to the inner meaning of religious symbols; and there was a
day
> > > when the Israelites had beliefs as pure as the Aryans have. But
now
> > > Judaism, built solely on Phallic worship, has become one of the
> > > latest creeds in Asia, and theologically a religion of hate and
> > > malice toward everyone and everything outside themselves. Philo
> > > JudÃÆÃÂus shows what was the genuine Hebrew faith. The sacred
> > Writings,
> > > he says, prescribe what we ought to do . . . commanding us to
hate
> > > the heathen and their laws and institutions. They did hate Baal
or
> > > Bacchus worship publicly, but left its worst features to be
> > followed
> > > secretly; and it is with the Talmudic Jews that the grand
symbols
> > of
> > > nature were the most profaned. With them, as now shown by the
> > > discovery of the key to the correct Bible reading - Geometry,
the
> > > fifth divine Science ("fifth" - because it is the fifth key in
the
> > > series of the Seven Keys to the Universal esoteric language and
> > > symbology) was desecrated, and by them applied to conceal the
most
> > > terrestrial and grossly sexual mysteries, wherein both Deity
and
> > > religion were degraded." (SD, vol. II, p. 471)
> > >
> > > On the other hand, an easier solution would be to allow people
the
> > > freedom to choose what they want to read and study. Alas, this
has
> > > always been the most difficult path to follow, particularly for
> > those
> > > bred and born with the nourishment of the received truth.
> > >
> > > Pedro
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter
inbox.
> > Take a look http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/smarterinbo x
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter
inbox.
> > Take a look http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/smarterinbo x
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter
inbox.
> > Take a look http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/smarterinbo x
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter
> > inbox. Take a look http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/smarterinbo x
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter
inbox. Take a look
> > http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/smarterinbo x
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter
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> > http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/smarterinbo x
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter
inbox. Take a look
> > http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/smarterinbo x
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > ------------ --------- --------- ------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter
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>
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