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Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?

Jan 16, 2009 08:07 PM
by Cass Silva


I was answering John -Âno not John the Baptist although no one has as yet claimed to be his reincarnation - so he's up for grabs
lol

Cass




________________________________
From: christinaleestemaker <christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com>
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 16 January, 2009 11:25:36 AM
Subject: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?


The baptist????? ????

--- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@ ...> wrote:
>
> I am sure he is John - nevertheless - he's not my man
> 
> Cass
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> > From: "Augoeides-222@ ..." <Augoeides-222@ ...>
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > Sent: Friday, 16 January, 2009 5:36:50 AM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> > 
> > Cass,
> > Satya Sai Baba of Shirdi is a cool dude even if he does walk 
behind on the right 
> > side with a small enigmatic smile and bright eyes.
> > 
> > Regards, 
> > John 
> > 
> > ------------ -- Original message ------------ -- 
> > From: Cass Silva 
> > No he is not for me Morten - too much controversy around him - 
claims of sexual 
> > abuse too!
> > Cass
> > Sathya Sai Baba on November 23, 1926[1][2] Ãâ" or later than 
1927[3] Ãâ" with the 
> > family name of "Ratnakaram" ,[4] and is a controversial[ 5] South 
Indian guru 
> > controversially described by his followers as a Godman[1][6] and 
a miracle 
> > worker.[7][8] Several controversies including of homosexual abuse 
[5], deciet[5] 
> > and economic offences[5] surround Sathyanarayana Raju. A BBC 
Documentary notes 
> > that such controversies have persisted for at least 30 years [5]. 
The website of 
> > the American Embassy in Delhi, referring to Sai Baba[5], warns 
Americans 
> > visiting Andhra Pradesh of a "noted godman" who reportedly 
engages in 
> > "inappropriate sexual behaviour" with young male devotees.[5]
> > According to the Sathya Sai Organization there are an estimated 
1,200 Sathya Sai 
> > Baba Centers in 114 countries world-wide.[ 9] The number of Sathya 
Sai Baba 
> > adherents is estimated sometimes as around 6 million, and 
followers cite "50 to 
> > 100 million."[10] He is considered by his followers to be an 
avatar and the 
> > reincarnation of the saint Sai Baba of Shirdi, however this has 
been strongly 
> > disputed
> > 
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > From: Morten Nymann Olesen 
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, 15 January, 2009 3:58:59 AM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> > 
> > Dear friends and Cass
> > 
> > My views are:
> > 
> > Have you read Sathya Sai Baba's books with the SAME emphasis and 
compared them 
> > with J. Krishnamurti' s?
> > Commercials are not always objective. I think we know that.
> > 
> > Try this easy one: GUIDE TO INDIAN CULTURE AND SPIRITUALITY (Q & 
A's between Sai 
> > Baba and a Seeker).
> > http://sss.vn. ua/guide_ in.htm
> > 
> > Here are writings given by Sathya Sai Baba - taken down by a near 
follow named 
> > N. Kasturi.
> > http://www.sssbpt. info
> > 
> > A book about the Avatar and the allegations etc etc.
> > "SATHYA SAI BABA AS AVATAR" by Michael James Spurr, 2007, 450 
pages
> > http://ir.canterbur y.ac.nz/bitstrea m/10092/1025/ 1/thesis_ 
fulltext. pdf
> > 
> > Sathya Sai Baba's teachings are called Purusothama Yoga 
(Something like - Karma, 
> > Bakhti, Jnana blended all one in one. Or something like the heart 
path of 
> > Adwaita Vedanta.)
> > 
> > - - -
> > Those interested will find a disagreement in dead letters between 
Sai Baba and 
> > H. P. Blavatsky on when the Kali Yuga began.
> > One will also find that Sathya Sai Baba's teaching are very 
synthetic in nature, 
> > similar to H. P. Blavatsky's. Whereas J. Krishnamurti' s was only 
a 
> > pseudo-Adwaita teaching where he almost always referred to 
himself and never to 
> > the sages and Avatars of the ancient times. And almost never 
comparing his words 
> > with others. No chela teachings like HPB and Sathya Sai Baba are 
in agreement 
> > about.
> > 
> > And when you read H. P. Blavatsky's book a Key to Theosophy you 
will understand 
> > the IMPORTANCE of seeking to promote, the mutual essence of the 
wisdom teachings 
> > from a religions of ancient past and present - so to seek to END 
all the 
> > strifes. And NOT to do like J. Krishnamurti - merely creating his 
own doctrine 
> > and sect, without really relating it to anything else but almost 
only his own 
> > thoughts.
> > 
> > But these are my views, and are written so that some of you might 
catch a 
> > glimpse of the true light and not a fanatical one no matter who 
is right or 
> > wrong.
> > 
> > M. Sufilight
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: Cass Silva 
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 2:26 AM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> > 
> > I can only speak for myself - I gained considerable knowledge 
from Krishnamurti 
> > concerning the ego and how it operates.
> > From Sai Baba all I learnt was the materialism of trinkets
> > 
> > Cass
> > 
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > From: Morten Nymann Olesen 
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, 14 January, 2009 3:58:27 AM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> > 
> > Dear friends and Cass
> > 
> > My views are:
> > 
> > You wrote:
> > "I believe Krishnamurti fulfilled Blavatsky prediction that a 
Teacher would 
> > come"
> > 
> > H. P. Blavatsky wrote the following in her famous book The Secret 
Doctrine 
> > (Volume I + II): 
> > 
> > "The same may be said of the whole Esoteric system. One turn of 
the key, and no 
> > more, was given in "ISIS." Much more is explained in these 
volumes. In those 
> > days the writer hardly knew the language in which the work was 
written, and the 
> > disclosure of many things, freely spoken about now, was 
forbidden. In Century 
> > the Twentieth some disciple more informed, and far better fitted, 
may be sent by 
> > the Masters of Wisdom to give final and irrefutable proofs that 
there exists a 
> > Science called Gupta-Vidya; and that, like the once-mysterious 
sources of the 
> > Nile, the source of all religions and philosophies now known to 
the world has 
> > been for many ages forgotten and lost to men, but is at last 
found."
> > (H. P. Blavatsky "The Secret Doctrine", vol. 1., ULT-edition, 
Facsimile of the 
> > original edition from 1888 ). 
> > 
> > - - -
> > 
> > Now if J. Krishnamurti fulfilled H. P. Blavatsky's prediction he 
must have been 
> > giving - as Blavatsky said in the above - "final and irrefutable 
proofs that 
> > there exists a Science called Gupta-Vidya; and that, like the 
once-mysterious 
> > sources of the Nile, the source of all religions and philosophies 
now known to 
> > the world has been for many ages forgotten and lost to men, but 
is at last 
> > found."
> > 
> > Where were and are those - quoted - "irrefutable proofs" given by 
J. 
> > Krishnamurti?
> > And if Dalai Lama is the hot shot, where were or are his - quoted 
- "irrefutable 
> > proofs"?
> > And C. W. Leadbeater, who only were a clairvoyant for about 16 
years before he 
> > singlehandedly discovered, lo, the Teacher of the AGE - and not 
the teacher of 
> > the decade, - where was his - quoted - "irrefutable proofs" on 
Gupta Vidya?
> > 
> > I conclude there were and are none yet.
> > Whereas - if anyone since 1925 until 2009 - should we said to 
have given such a 
> > proof, it aught to be Sathya Sai Baba despite the many bad 
romours about him. 
> > 
> > Is there anyone who disagree with me on this?
> > 
> > Although, I am not the one saying that Sathya Sai Baba is the 
Avatar of the Age, 
> > despite he him self are saying that.
> > 
> > M. Sufilight
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: Cass Silva 
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 3:57 AM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> > 
> > How would I know?
> > Cass
> > Mr. J.M. Prentice followed, and Dawn is able to reproduce his 
eloquent address 
> > in full. He said: -
> > "In view of the importance of this occasion, in view of the 
importance of the 
> > work we are starting tonight, I want - by way of introduction - 
to refer to 
> > something which I have never hitherto referred to in public: I 
want to tell you 
> > the circumstances in which H.P.B. died. I wish you to go back 
with me some 
> > thirty-two years and picture a room - half bedroom, half study, 
and see there an 
> > old woman, worn out in the work of Humanity, diseased and ill, 
gasping out her 
> > last few life-breaths. And I want you to note that as she dies a 
wave of despair 
> > well-nigh engulfs her, despair not for herself, but for the 
movement to which 
> > she has devoted her life. See her seated in a great arm-chair, 
and hear the last 
> > words which she whispers ere she dies: "Tell Annie to keep the 
link unbroken." 
> > That was the link with the Great Powers which were behind the 
Society and the 
> > White Lodge which was responsible for bringing it into
> > existence. I want to tell you something of the happenings in the 
years that have 
> > followed since then, and how Annie, who is, of course, Mrs. 
Besant, has acted in 
> > regard to keeping the link unbroken. It is a sad story. It is the 
story of one 
> > who failed to reach the level of greatness indicated for her, who 
failed so 
> > utterly as to make H.P.B.'s despair understandable now.
> > "Within two years of Blavatsky's death the lust for power that 
has been such a 
> > feature of Mrs. Besant's career manifested itself, and that 
dominant pride of 
> > personality that H.P.B. had so severely rebuked, had shown 
itself. In 1892 
> > (3-4), there was - what shall I call it? - a conflict between two 
of the 
> > personalities that were left in charge of the movement, and the 
result of the 
> > clash was the ruinous experience known as the Judge secession in 
1895. There is 
> > little profit in reviewing all the details, but I want to say 
this: it was 
> > largely the result of Annie Besant's work, of her failure to 
understand the 
> > principles of universal brotherhood, that the movement was well-
nigh wrecked 
> > then. That section of the movement which followed Mr. Judge in 
1895 passed, 
> > after his death in 1896, into the hands of Mrs. Katherine 
Tingley, who is still 
> > the leader of a comparatively small section of the Theosophical 
Society, and who 
> > is doing good work.
> > She has devoted herself to the cause of Universal Brotherhood and 
world peace, 
> > and we recognize the value of the work she has done in America, 
Holland, and the 
> > Scandinavian countries; but she again, because of this terrific 
lust for power, 
> > was not able to control even that portion of the movement which 
came under her 
> > control, so there was a further split, and that movement, that 
second secession, 
> > is now known as The United Lodge of Theosophists, which in turn 
is doing a 
> > splendid work, more especially in republishing Blavatsky's books 
exactly as she 
> > wrote them, and not as they have been re-edited since.
> > "The years that followed the Judge secession were marked by the 
introduction of 
> > Neo-Theosophy. Slowly there emerges the sinister figure of an old 
friend - C.W. 
> > Leadbeater. He
> > represents all that is worst in the whole movement. In 1906, and 
right on until 
> > 1908, there were launched round him a series of scandals that are 
so unsavory 
> > that I am not going to inflict any of them on you. He resigned in 
1906, and, as 
> > Mr. Gillespie has told you, he went out originally with the 
unsparing 
> > condemnation of Mrs. Besant. However, she very soon brought him 
back, because 
> > she found him necessary in supplying her with all the psychic 
stuff requisite to 
> > the career on which she found herself embarked. She was not able 
to get all the 
> > choice bits of psychic information required to feed the flock of 
devotees with 
> > which she had surrounded herself, so, as our sinister friend had 
already 
> > succeeded in cultivating a world-wide impression that he was the 
greatest 
> > clairvoyant in existence, he was recalled to assist her. 
Moreover, in connection 
> > with the appearance of some questionable spooks that were 
construed in the 
> > Persons of the Masters at the death-bed
> > of the President-Founder, Colonel Olcott, Leadbeater had 
performed a signal 
> > service to Mrs. Besant by declaring, from the kindly shelter of a 
Sicilian villa 
> > to which he had retired in the hour of his downfall, that they 
were genuine. 
> > True, he was not there, and knew nothing of what had actually 
happened; but so 
> > cleverly had he worked himself in a position of being the 
mouthpiece of the 
> > Masters, that his testimony was sufficient to swing over many of 
the doubters, 
> > and so, by his help, Mrs. Besant had been elected President.
> > "In 1908 he triumphantly returned to the movement, and very 
shortly we see the 
> > first evidences of a plan which had been slowly maturing in his 
mind - the first 
> > direct evidence of absolute departure from Universal Brotherhood, 
and the 
> > neutrality that goes with it is in the beginnings of the "Order 
of the Star in 
> > the East." I know that we were told, until we were sick of 
listening to it, that 
> > the O.S.E. had no direct or official connection with the 
Theosophical Society; 
> > but it was one of the first fruits of Neo-Theosophy, it fastened 
itself on to 
> > the movement, and the parasitic growth has drawn its very life 
therefrom ever 
> > since.
> > "In 1911-12 there was another split. If there is anything in the 
world that Mrs. 
> > Besant will not tolerate, it is the possibility of a rival. She 
saw one in the 
> > person of Dr. Rudolph Steiner. It did not take long for Mrs. 
Besant to 
> > inaugurate a plan of campaign. She saw fit to expel the whole of 
the German 
> > Section of 2,500 members. And why? What do you think was her 
excuse for 
> > literally kicking out all these members? Because, she said, Dr. 
Steiner was 
> > giving a presentation of Theosophy which was Christian in its 
nature, that it 
> > would probably be offensive to non-Christian members in other 
parts of the 
> > world. And yet she now does everything she possibly can to foster 
and enliven 
> > the Liberal Catholic Church, another parasitic growth that has 
caused endless 
> > trouble in regard to the free-running life of the Society. The 
Liberal Catholic 
> > Church is much more likely to offend non-Christian Theosophists 
than ever was 
> > Dr. Steiner's presentation
> > of Theosophy. Indeed, it has offended many of us who were 
nominally Christian 
> > Theosophists - Christian by accident of birth, but Theosophists 
by conviction 
> > and long study. This is just a little example of the inconstancy 
that goes with 
> > Neo-Theosophy. And there are dozens of others. The chain that 
H.P.B. forged by 
> > her selfless service to Humanity has been broken, not once, but 
dozens of times, 
> > the chain that linked the world of today with all the splendid 
workers of the 
> > past, and which should have gone on into the future in unbroken 
splendor, has 
> > been broken into fragments because "Annie" was unfaithful to the 
charge given to 
> > her by the dying Blavatsky, and had failed to keep the particular 
link delivered 
> > into her hands unbroken.
> > 
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > From: Morten Nymann Olesen 
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, 13 January, 2009 4:54:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> > 
> > And which of them gace "irrefutable proof of Gupta-Vidya" ?
> > 
> > Dalai Lama, J. Krushnamurti, or C. W. Leadbeater?
> > 
> > M. Sufilight
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: nhcareyta 
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> > Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 2:02 AM
> > Subject: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> > 
> > Dear Cass
> > 
> > If I may add to your discussion, your point concerning 
> > a teacher rather than Messiah is, from my perspective, 
> > well made and significant.
> > 
> > Moreover, Madame Blavatsky's words "...numerous and 
> > united body of people..." and "..an organisation awaiting 
> > his arrival..." are also significant.
> > 
> > As I have mentioned previously, in 1973 the Dalai Lama 
> > first visited the West in Europe. 
> > He found "...numerous and united body of people..." 
> > and an organisational structure ready for his teachings. 
> > Many of these teachings are theosophical and from Madame 
> > Blavatsky's masters' tradition. 
> > She was entrusted to bring some of these same teachings to 
> > the West a century earlier.
> > The Dalai Lama has certainly been a torchbearer for the light 
> > of compassion and non-violence in the world. 
> > And contrary to most religions, he also teaches we have to 
> > discover the nature of our self, by ourselves, through 
> > studying our mind and not through blindly following dogma, 
> > despite his tradition's many dogmas.
> > 
> > Kind regards
> > Nigel
> > 
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Cass Silva wrote:
> > >
> > > No I haven't - Blavatsky stated "the next impulse will find a 
> > numerous and united body
> > > of people ready to welcome the new torch-bearer of Truth. He 
will 
> > find the minds of men prepared for his message, a language ready 
for 
> > him in which to clothe the new truths he brings, an organization 
> > awaiting his arrival . . . ." The Key to Theosophy, pp. 306-7. 
> > Italics added.
> > > 
> > > She stated a "new torch-bearer of Truth" which isn't the same 
thing 
> > as a 'new messiah' - I see no problem in translating torch bearer 
> > into teacher?
> > > 
> > > Cass
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > > From: Morten Nymann Olesen 
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > > Sent: Sunday, 11 January, 2009 8:41:05 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > No.
> > > You wrote:
> > > "I believe Krishnamurti fulfilled Blavatsky prediction that a 
> > Teacher would come"
> > > 
> > > I take it that you have changed your mind or wanted to tell me 
> > something else.
> > > 
> > > - - -
> > > 
> > > And you did not answer my questions.
> > > And I ask myself why.
> > > 
> > > M. Sufilight
> > > 
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: Cass Silva 
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 3:29 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> > > 
> > > As I have said he was a lesser teacher - as we have mini cycles 
we 
> > also have mini teachers - if you get my point
> > > Cass
> > > 
> > > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > > From: Morten Nymann Olesen 
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > > Sent: Saturday, 10 January, 2009 8:55:54 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> > > 
> > > Dear friends and Cass
> > > 
> > > My views are:
> > > 
> > > Cass wrote:
> > > "I believe Krishnamurti fulfilled Blavatsky prediction that a 
> > Teacher would come"
> > > 
> > > My answer:
> > > I see no reason to believe this. A Trre is known on its fruits.
> > > 
> > > ". . .during the last quarter of every hundred years an attempt 
is 
> > made by those 'Masters' . . . to help on the spiritual progress 
of 
> > Humanity in a marked and definite way. Towards the close of each 
> > century you will invariably find that an outpouring or upheaval 
of 
> > spirituality - or call it mysticism if you prefer - has taken 
place. 
> > Some one or more persons have appeared in the world as their 
agents, 
> > and a greater or less amount of occult knowledge and teaching has 
> > been given out . . . . .If the present attempt, in the form of 
our 
> > Society, succeeds better than its predecessors have done, then it 
> > will be in existence as an organized, living and healthy body 
when 
> > the time comes for the effort of the XXth century. The general 
> > condition of men's minds and hearts will have been improved and 
> > purified by the spread of its teachings . . . . but besides a 
large 
> > and accessible literature ready to men's hands, the next impulse 
will 
> > find a numerous and united body
> > > of people ready to welcome the new torch-bearer of Truth. He 
will 
> > find the minds of men prepared for his message, a language ready 
for 
> > him in which to clothe the new truths he brings, an organization 
> > awaiting his arrival . . . ." The Key to Theosophy, pp. 306-7. 
> > Italics added.
> > > 
> > > My answer:
> > > 
> > > 1.
> > > I did not see an Organisation awaiting his (J. Krishnamurti' s) 
> > arrival. He was made a Messiah by the mis-conduct C. W. 
Leadbeater to 
> > promote his and Annie Besants fantasies about a Messiah in the 
flesh 
> > as something theosophical.
> > > 
> > > 2.
> > > He (J. Krishnamurti' s) if true, came 50 years earlier than 
> > predicted by H. P. Blavatsky. Do any of youreally HONESTLY within 
> > your minds find it to be possible that H. P. Blavatsky and her 
> > Masters was so bad in calculating when a new out-pouring would 
come?
> > > 
> > > If you compare J. Krishnamurti with other contemporary 
spiritual 
> > teacher and later teacher I find him to be a gnat in front of an 
> > elephant when compared with for instance persons like Idries 
Shah's 
> > teachings, Sathya Sai Baba's teachings, and even the persons 
behind 
> > the Disclosure Project on Ufology.
> > > 
> > > 3.
> > > Do you honstely find his (J. Krishnamurti' s) messages to be 
NEW?
> > > 
> > > 4.
> > > The body was not "united". It exploded thanks to C. W. 
Leadbeater 
> > and Annie Bests misconducts. How on earth can people find 
themselves 
> > believing, that the World Teacher of the Age was discovered 
> > SINGLEHANDEDLY by a man who just 3 years earlier was thrown out 
of 
> > the TS because of Sexual misconduct, something even admitted by 
> > himself? And a "body" which litterally en C. W. Leadbeater was 
> > admitted entrance to the Society again, forcing a great number of 
> > honest theosophists to resign?
> > > Why should such an activity be the hallmark of theosophical 
TRUTH 
> > and COMPASSION?
> > > I call it a disgrace!
> > > 
> > > 5.
> > > Why do you not find H. P. Blavatsky's masters being more able 
to 
> > predict the future than Annie Besant's ?
> > > 
> > > M. Sufilight
> > > 
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: Cass Silva 
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> > > Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 12:48 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> > > 
> > > It was Leadbeater who pronounced Krishnamurti as being the new 
> > World Teacher - Besant went along with it even though she should 
have 
> > known better - Messiah's are not found on beaches - I believe 
> > Krishnamurti fulfilled Blavatsky prediction that a Teacher would 
> > come - Leadbeater and Besant presumed the teacher would be a 
World 
> > Teacher - a christ acting through maitreya - the whole episode 
> > confounds me as Besant and Leadbeater must have been aware that 
such 
> > a World Teacher would not have required any education from those 
> > lesser evolved.
> > > I believe Krishnamurti when he reached adulthood recognised the 
> > bullshit - that he was not the second christ but could offer the 
> > world a new teaching on the self, hence his reasoning to abandon 
> > everything that supported the second christ claim.
> > > 
> > > Cass
> > > 
> > > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > > From: Morten Nymann Olesen 
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > > Sent: Saturday, 10 January, 2009 3:13:49 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> > > 
> > > Yes. - Let me rephrase it:
> > > And her activities when talking about J. Krishnamurti?
> > > 
> > > M. Sufilight
> > > 
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: Cass Silva 
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 11:33 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> > > 
> > > Morten - you are wrong Besant did not carnalize Jesus
> > > Cass
> > > 
> > > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > > From: Morten Nymann Olesen 
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > > Sent: Friday, 9 January, 2009 3:58:08 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> > > 
> > > Dear Pedro and friends
> > > 
> > > My views are:
> > > 
> > > Pedro asked:
> > > "Why not burn them in public places, with sufficient notice 
given 
> > to 
> > > those interested to attend?"
> > > 
> > > My answer and questions:
> > > 
> > > Why especially seek to burn them all like revolutionaries? Why 
not 
> > just simply avoid selling them?
> > > Let each person have their free choice in accordance with the 
Law 
> > of Karma. And let us tell people that we do NOT promote and sell 
> > these books, and that we have our reasons for not doing so. They 
are -
> > perhaps and only perhaps - available at our libraries alongside 
the 
> > books by the Spiritists, the Christian dogmatics and other 
misleading 
> > teachings.
> > > 
> > > Can you with your compassionate heart and conscience say to any 
> > beginner seeker who visits a TS Bookshop say: 
> > > "Try this book. It is very good. It was written by one of the 
best 
> > theosophical authors of the past 150 years, and he was indeed a 
good 
> > and wise man? Honestly Pedro, if you agree to this I will have to 
ask 
> > you: What planet do you come from?
> > > 
> > > Pedro asked:
> > > "As a matter of fact, why stop at 
> > > Leadbeater's books? Why not include Besant's, Arundale's, 
> > > Jinarajadasa' s, Sri Ram's, Taimni's and perhaps many others?"
> > > 
> > > My answer and question:
> > > Each authors books and literary output have to valued in the 
face 
> > of their contents and whether the individual author stands as a 
> > disgrace to the theosophical teachings. H. P. Blavatsky clearly 
spake 
> > out against selling all kind of books. And TS Adyar are not 
selling 
> > all kind of books. 
> > > 
> > > Today we theosophists are faced with numerous websites bashing 
the 
> > theosophical teachings because of C. W. Leadbeaters misconduct 
and 
> > the promotion of a Messiah only 3 years after he were thrown out 
of 
> > the Society.
> > > You tell them all and tell us, that we and they ALL are wrong 
in 
> > their and our views on C. W. Leadbeater dammaging behaviour to 
the TS 
> > teachings as they were given by H. P. Blavatsky and Master.
> > > 
> > > I had to start at one place, and choose CWL. And yes, maybe 
other 
> > authors books aught to be prevented from being sold so not to 
damage 
> > the WISDOM TEACHINGS of ALL AGES PAST. What do each of you think 
the 
> > Master would say if you just would go on and sell all and 
everything. 
> > > 
> > > Remember H. P. Blavatsky for instance recommended reading 
Hargrave 
> > Jennings book about The Rosicrucians: Their Rites and Mysteries 
> > (1870). And she did well doing it. Can we say the same about C. 
W. 
> > Leadbeaters books? No certainly not!
> > > 
> > > These are some the differences in view Pedro.
> > > I will avoid to promote something that damages the WISDOM 
TEACHINGS 
> > of ALL AGES PAST.
> > > Whereas I find that you appearntly would allow this damage to 
take 
> > full effect in a Christian Church or something almost similar to 
it?
> > > 
> > > - - -
> > > Now, Annie Besant, C. W. Leadbeater and Alice A. Bailey 
promotes 
> > the idea of a carnalized saviour in the flesh. They do it by the 
use 
> > of pseudo-Christian vocabulary, I will admit that. But they DO it.
> > > 
> > > H. P. Blavatsky spoke about against this idea of emotionalism.
> > > And when people will teach theosophy they aught to consider the 
> > following views by H. P. Blavatsky.
> > > 
> > > H.P. Blavatsky wrote in December 1887:
> > > 
> > > In CARNALIZING the central figure of the New Testament, in 
imposing
> > > the dogma of the Word MADE FLESH, the Latin Church sets up a 
> > doctrine
> > > diametrically opposed to the tenets of Buddhist and Hindu 
> > Esotericism
> > > and the Greek Gnosis. Therefore, there will always be an abyss
> > > between the East and the West, as long as neither of these 
dogmas
> > > yields. Almost 2,000 years of bloody persecution against 
HERETICS
> > > and INFIDELS by the Church looms before the Oriental nations to
> > > prevent them from renouncing their philosophic doctrines in 
favor of
> > > that which degrades the CHRISTOS principle. [372-373]
> > > 
> > > ...the Christians, by localizing and isolating this great 
Principle,
> > > and denying it to any other man except Jesus of Nazareth (or the
> > > Nazar), CARNALIZE the Christos of the Gnostics; that alone 
prevents
> > > them having any point in common with the disciples of the 
Archaic
> > > Wisdom. . . . [374]
> > > 
> > > . . . true Theosophists will never accept ...a Christ made
> > > Flesh. . . .[390]
> > > 
> > > - - -
> > > 
> > > C.W. XII, p. 501-
> > > 
> > > (From the "Book of Discipline" in the schools of "Dzyan.") 
> > > 
> > > "1. To the earnest Disciple his Teacher takes the place of 
Father 
> > and Mother. For, whereas they gave him his body and its 
faculties, 
> > its life and casual form, the Teacher shows him how to develop 
the 
> > inner faculties for the acquisition of the Eternal Wisdom. 
> > > 
> > > "2. To the Disciple each Fellow-Disciple becomes a Brother and 
> > Sister, a portion of himself, for his interests and aspirations 
are 
> > theirs, his welfare interwoven with theirs, his progress helped 
or 
> > hindered by their intelligence, morality, and behavior through 
the 
> > intimacy brought about by their co-discipleship. 
> > > 
> > > "3. A co-disciple or associate cannot backslide or fall out of 
the 
> > line without affecting those who stand firm through the 
sympathetic 
> > tie between themselves and the psychical currents between them 
and 
> > their Teacher. 
> > > 
> > > "4. Woe to the deserter, woe also to all who help to bring his 
soul 
> > to the point where desertion first presents itself before his 
mind's 
> > eye, as the lesser of two evils. Gold in the crucible is he who 
> > stands the melting heat of trial, and lets only the dross be 
burnt 
> > out of his heart; accursed by Karmic action will find himself he 
who 
> > throws dross into the melting-pot of discipleship for the 
debasement 
> > of his fellow-pupil. As the members to the body, so are the 
disciples 
> > to each other, and to the Head and Heart which teach and nourish 
them 
> > with the life-stream of Truth. 
> > > 
> > > "5. As the limbs defend the head and heart of the body they 
belong 
> > to, so have the disciples to defend the head and the heart of the 
> > body they belong to (in this case Theosophy) from injury." 
> > > 
> > > (From the Letter of a Master.)
> > > 
> > > " ... and if the limbs have to defend the head and heart of 
their 
> > body, then why not so, also, the Disciples their Teachers as 
> > representing the SCIENCE of Theosophy which contains and 
> > > 
> > > ----------
> > > * "So shalt thou be in full accord with all that lives; bear 
love 
> > to men as though they were thy brother-pupils, disciples of one 
> > Teacher, the sons of one sweet mother." (Vide Fragment III, in 
Voice 
> > of the Silence, p. 49.)
> > > ----------
> > > 
> > > Page 503
> > > 
> > > includes the 'head' of their privilege, the 'heart' of their 
> > spiritual growth? Saith the Scripture: - 
> > > 
> > > "He who wipeth not away the filth with which the parent's body 
may 
> > have been defiled by an enemy, neither loves the parent nor 
honours 
> > himself. He who defendeth not the persecuted and the helpless, 
who 
> > giveth not of his food to the starving nor draweth water from his 
> > well for the thirsty, hath been born too soon in human shape. "
> > > 
> > > http://www.katinkah esselink. net/blavatsky/ articles/ v12/
y1890_ 
> > 052.htm
> > > 
> > > M. Sufilight
> > > 
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: Pedro Oliveira 
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 8:01 AM
> > > Subject: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> > > 
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" > > 
theosophy@ .> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > So therefore I would keep recommending: Stop selling books by 
C. 
> > > W. Leadbeater and his LLC Church.
> > > 
> > > Why not burn them in public places, with sufficient notice 
given to 
> > > those interested to attend? As a matter of fact, why stop at 
> > > Leadbeater's books? Why not include Besant's, Arundale's, 
> > > Jinarajadasa' s, Sri Ram's, Taimni's and perhaps many others?
> > > 
> > > In view of the statemts included in it, such as the ones below, 
> > > should not "The Secret Doctrine" be also considered as a book 
whose 
> > > sale may not be allowed to go on?
> > > 
> > > "The Aryan views of the symbolism were those of the whole Pagan 
> > > world; the Semite interpretations emanated from, and were pre-
> > > eminently those of a small tribe, thus marking its national 
> > features 
> > > and the idiosyncratic defects that characterize many of the 
Jews to 
> > > this day - gross realism, selfishness, and sensuality. They had 
> > made 
> > > a bargain, through their father Jacob, with their tribal deity, 
> > self-
> > > exalted above all others, and a covenant that his "seed shall 
be as 
> > > the dust of the earth"; and that deity could have no better 
image 
> > > henceforth than that of the symbol of generation, and, as 
> > > representation, a number and numbers." (SD, vol. II, p. 470)
> > > 
> > > "But Phallic worship has developed only with the gradual loss 
of 
> > the 
> > > keys to the inner meaning of religious symbols; and there was a 
day 
> > > when the Israelites had beliefs as pure as the Aryans have. But 
now 
> > > Judaism, built solely on Phallic worship, has become one of the 
> > > latest creeds in Asia, and theologically a religion of hate and 
> > > malice toward everyone and everything outside themselves. Philo 
> > > JudÃÆÃÂus shows what was the genuine Hebrew faith. The sacred 
> > Writings, 
> > > he says, prescribe what we ought to do . . . commanding us to 
hate 
> > > the heathen and their laws and institutions. They did hate Baal 
or 
> > > Bacchus worship publicly, but left its worst features to be 
> > followed 
> > > secretly; and it is with the Talmudic Jews that the grand 
symbols 
> > of 
> > > nature were the most profaned. With them, as now shown by the 
> > > discovery of the key to the correct Bible reading - Geometry, 
the 
> > > fifth divine Science ("fifth" - because it is the fifth key in 
the 
> > > series of the Seven Keys to the Universal esoteric language and 
> > > symbology) was desecrated, and by them applied to conceal the 
most 
> > > terrestrial and grossly sexual mysteries, wherein both Deity 
and 
> > > religion were degraded." (SD, vol. II, p. 471)
> > > 
> > > On the other hand, an easier solution would be to allow people 
the 
> > > freedom to choose what they want to read and study. Alas, this 
has 
> > > always been the most difficult path to follow, particularly for 
> > those 
> > > bred and born with the nourishment of the received truth.
> > > 
> > > Pedro
> > > 
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > 
> > > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter 
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> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
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> > ------------ --------- --------- ------
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
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