Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
Jan 15, 2009 04:12 PM
by Cass Silva
I am sure he is John - nevertheless - he's not my man
Cass
----- Original Message ----
> From: "Augoeides-222@comcast.net" <Augoeides-222@comcast.net>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, 16 January, 2009 5:36:50 AM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
> Cass,
> Satya Sai Baba of Shirdi is a cool dude even if he does walk behind on the right
> side with a small enigmatic smile and bright eyes.
>
> Regards,
> John
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Cass Silva
> No he is not for me Morten - too much controversy around him - claims of sexual
> abuse too!
> Cass
> Sathya Sai Baba on November 23, 1926[1][2] â or later than 1927[3] â with the
> family name of "Ratnakaram",[4] and is a controversial[5] South Indian guru
> controversially described by his followers as a Godman[1][6] and a miracle
> worker.[7][8] Several controversies including of homosexual abuse [5], deciet[5]
> and economic offences[5] surround Sathyanarayana Raju. A BBC Documentary notes
> that such controversies have persisted for at least 30 years [5]. The website of
> the American Embassy in Delhi, referring to Sai Baba[5], warns Americans
> visiting Andhra Pradesh of a "noted godman" who reportedly engages in
> "inappropriate sexual behaviour" with young male devotees.[5]
> According to the Sathya Sai Organization there are an estimated 1,200 Sathya Sai
> Baba Centers in 114 countries world-wide.[9] The number of Sathya Sai Baba
> adherents is estimated sometimes as around 6 million, and followers cite "50 to
> 100 million."[10] He is considered by his followers to be an avatar and the
> reincarnation of the saint Sai Baba of Shirdi, however this has been strongly
> disputed
>
> ________________________________
> From: Morten Nymann Olesen
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, 15 January, 2009 3:58:59 AM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
> Dear friends and Cass
>
> My views are:
>
> Have you read Sathya Sai Baba's books with the SAME emphasis and compared them
> with J. Krishnamurti' s?
> Commercials are not always objective. I think we know that.
>
> Try this easy one: GUIDE TO INDIAN CULTURE AND SPIRITUALITY (Q & A's between Sai
> Baba and a Seeker).
> http://sss.vn. ua/guide_ in.htm
>
> Here are writings given by Sathya Sai Baba - taken down by a near follow named
> N. Kasturi.
> http://www.sssbpt. info
>
> A book about the Avatar and the allegations etc etc.
> "SATHYA SAI BABA AS AVATAR" by Michael James Spurr, 2007, 450 pages
> http://ir.canterbur y.ac.nz/bitstrea m/10092/1025/ 1/thesis_ fulltext. pdf
>
> Sathya Sai Baba's teachings are called Purusothama Yoga (Something like - Karma,
> Bakhti, Jnana blended all one in one. Or something like the heart path of
> Adwaita Vedanta.)
>
> - - -
> Those interested will find a disagreement in dead letters between Sai Baba and
> H. P. Blavatsky on when the Kali Yuga began.
> One will also find that Sathya Sai Baba's teaching are very synthetic in nature,
> similar to H. P. Blavatsky's. Whereas J. Krishnamurti' s was only a
> pseudo-Adwaita teaching where he almost always referred to himself and never to
> the sages and Avatars of the ancient times. And almost never comparing his words
> with others. No chela teachings like HPB and Sathya Sai Baba are in agreement
> about.
>
> And when you read H. P. Blavatsky's book a Key to Theosophy you will understand
> the IMPORTANCE of seeking to promote, the mutual essence of the wisdom teachings
> from a religions of ancient past and present - so to seek to END all the
> strifes. And NOT to do like J. Krishnamurti - merely creating his own doctrine
> and sect, without really relating it to anything else but almost only his own
> thoughts.
>
> But these are my views, and are written so that some of you might catch a
> glimpse of the true light and not a fanatical one no matter who is right or
> wrong.
>
> M. Sufilight
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Cass Silva
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 2:26 AM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
> I can only speak for myself - I gained considerable knowledge from Krishnamurti
> concerning the ego and how it operates.
> From Sai Baba all I learnt was the materialism of trinkets
>
> Cass
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: Morten Nymann Olesen
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 14 January, 2009 3:58:27 AM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
> Dear friends and Cass
>
> My views are:
>
> You wrote:
> "I believe Krishnamurti fulfilled Blavatsky prediction that a Teacher would
> come"
>
> H. P. Blavatsky wrote the following in her famous book The Secret Doctrine
> (Volume I + II):
>
> "The same may be said of the whole Esoteric system. One turn of the key, and no
> more, was given in "ISIS." Much more is explained in these volumes. In those
> days the writer hardly knew the language in which the work was written, and the
> disclosure of many things, freely spoken about now, was forbidden. In Century
> the Twentieth some disciple more informed, and far better fitted, may be sent by
> the Masters of Wisdom to give final and irrefutable proofs that there exists a
> Science called Gupta-Vidya; and that, like the once-mysterious sources of the
> Nile, the source of all religions and philosophies now known to the world has
> been for many ages forgotten and lost to men, but is at last found."
> (H. P. Blavatsky "The Secret Doctrine", vol. 1., ULT-edition, Facsimile of the
> original edition from 1888 ).
>
> - - -
>
> Now if J. Krishnamurti fulfilled H. P. Blavatsky's prediction he must have been
> giving - as Blavatsky said in the above - "final and irrefutable proofs that
> there exists a Science called Gupta-Vidya; and that, like the once-mysterious
> sources of the Nile, the source of all religions and philosophies now known to
> the world has been for many ages forgotten and lost to men, but is at last
> found."
>
> Where were and are those - quoted - "irrefutable proofs" given by J.
> Krishnamurti?
> And if Dalai Lama is the hot shot, where were or are his - quoted - "irrefutable
> proofs"?
> And C. W. Leadbeater, who only were a clairvoyant for about 16 years before he
> singlehandedly discovered, lo, the Teacher of the AGE - and not the teacher of
> the decade, - where was his - quoted - "irrefutable proofs" on Gupta Vidya?
>
> I conclude there were and are none yet.
> Whereas - if anyone since 1925 until 2009 - should we said to have given such a
> proof, it aught to be Sathya Sai Baba despite the many bad romours about him.
>
> Is there anyone who disagree with me on this?
>
> Although, I am not the one saying that Sathya Sai Baba is the Avatar of the Age,
> despite he him self are saying that.
>
> M. Sufilight
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Cass Silva
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 3:57 AM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
> How would I know?
> Cass
> Mr. J.M. Prentice followed, and Dawn is able to reproduce his eloquent address
> in full. He said: -
> "In view of the importance of this occasion, in view of the importance of the
> work we are starting tonight, I want - by way of introduction - to refer to
> something which I have never hitherto referred to in public: I want to tell you
> the circumstances in which H.P.B. died. I wish you to go back with me some
> thirty-two years and picture a room - half bedroom, half study, and see there an
> old woman, worn out in the work of Humanity, diseased and ill, gasping out her
> last few life-breaths. And I want you to note that as she dies a wave of despair
> well-nigh engulfs her, despair not for herself, but for the movement to which
> she has devoted her life. See her seated in a great arm-chair, and hear the last
> words which she whispers ere she dies: "Tell Annie to keep the link unbroken."
> That was the link with the Great Powers which were behind the Society and the
> White Lodge which was responsible for bringing it into
> existence. I want to tell you something of the happenings in the years that have
> followed since then, and how Annie, who is, of course, Mrs. Besant, has acted in
> regard to keeping the link unbroken. It is a sad story. It is the story of one
> who failed to reach the level of greatness indicated for her, who failed so
> utterly as to make H.P.B.'s despair understandable now.
> "Within two years of Blavatsky's death the lust for power that has been such a
> feature of Mrs. Besant's career manifested itself, and that dominant pride of
> personality that H.P.B. had so severely rebuked, had shown itself. In 1892
> (3-4), there was - what shall I call it? - a conflict between two of the
> personalities that were left in charge of the movement, and the result of the
> clash was the ruinous experience known as the Judge secession in 1895. There is
> little profit in reviewing all the details, but I want to say this: it was
> largely the result of Annie Besant's work, of her failure to understand the
> principles of universal brotherhood, that the movement was well-nigh wrecked
> then. That section of the movement which followed Mr. Judge in 1895 passed,
> after his death in 1896, into the hands of Mrs. Katherine Tingley, who is still
> the leader of a comparatively small section of the Theosophical Society, and who
> is doing good work.
> She has devoted herself to the cause of Universal Brotherhood and world peace,
> and we recognize the value of the work she has done in America, Holland, and the
> Scandinavian countries; but she again, because of this terrific lust for power,
> was not able to control even that portion of the movement which came under her
> control, so there was a further split, and that movement, that second secession,
> is now known as The United Lodge of Theosophists, which in turn is doing a
> splendid work, more especially in republishing Blavatsky's books exactly as she
> wrote them, and not as they have been re-edited since.
> "The years that followed the Judge secession were marked by the introduction of
> Neo-Theosophy. Slowly there emerges the sinister figure of an old friend - C.W.
> Leadbeater. He
> represents all that is worst in the whole movement. In 1906, and right on until
> 1908, there were launched round him a series of scandals that are so unsavory
> that I am not going to inflict any of them on you. He resigned in 1906, and, as
> Mr. Gillespie has told you, he went out originally with the unsparing
> condemnation of Mrs. Besant. However, she very soon brought him back, because
> she found him necessary in supplying her with all the psychic stuff requisite to
> the career on which she found herself embarked. She was not able to get all the
> choice bits of psychic information required to feed the flock of devotees with
> which she had surrounded herself, so, as our sinister friend had already
> succeeded in cultivating a world-wide impression that he was the greatest
> clairvoyant in existence, he was recalled to assist her. Moreover, in connection
> with the appearance of some questionable spooks that were construed in the
> Persons of the Masters at the death-bed
> of the President-Founder, Colonel Olcott, Leadbeater had performed a signal
> service to Mrs. Besant by declaring, from the kindly shelter of a Sicilian villa
> to which he had retired in the hour of his downfall, that they were genuine.
> True, he was not there, and knew nothing of what had actually happened; but so
> cleverly had he worked himself in a position of being the mouthpiece of the
> Masters, that his testimony was sufficient to swing over many of the doubters,
> and so, by his help, Mrs. Besant had been elected President.
> "In 1908 he triumphantly returned to the movement, and very shortly we see the
> first evidences of a plan which had been slowly maturing in his mind - the first
> direct evidence of absolute departure from Universal Brotherhood, and the
> neutrality that goes with it is in the beginnings of the "Order of the Star in
> the East." I know that we were told, until we were sick of listening to it, that
> the O.S.E. had no direct or official connection with the Theosophical Society;
> but it was one of the first fruits of Neo-Theosophy, it fastened itself on to
> the movement, and the parasitic growth has drawn its very life therefrom ever
> since.
> "In 1911-12 there was another split. If there is anything in the world that Mrs.
> Besant will not tolerate, it is the possibility of a rival. She saw one in the
> person of Dr. Rudolph Steiner. It did not take long for Mrs. Besant to
> inaugurate a plan of campaign. She saw fit to expel the whole of the German
> Section of 2,500 members. And why? What do you think was her excuse for
> literally kicking out all these members? Because, she said, Dr. Steiner was
> giving a presentation of Theosophy which was Christian in its nature, that it
> would probably be offensive to non-Christian members in other parts of the
> world. And yet she now does everything she possibly can to foster and enliven
> the Liberal Catholic Church, another parasitic growth that has caused endless
> trouble in regard to the free-running life of the Society. The Liberal Catholic
> Church is much more likely to offend non-Christian Theosophists than ever was
> Dr. Steiner's presentation
> of Theosophy. Indeed, it has offended many of us who were nominally Christian
> Theosophists - Christian by accident of birth, but Theosophists by conviction
> and long study. This is just a little example of the inconstancy that goes with
> Neo-Theosophy. And there are dozens of others. The chain that H.P.B. forged by
> her selfless service to Humanity has been broken, not once, but dozens of times,
> the chain that linked the world of today with all the splendid workers of the
> past, and which should have gone on into the future in unbroken splendor, has
> been broken into fragments because "Annie" was unfaithful to the charge given to
> her by the dying Blavatsky, and had failed to keep the particular link delivered
> into her hands unbroken.
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: Morten Nymann Olesen
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 13 January, 2009 4:54:46 AM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
> And which of them gace "irrefutable proof of Gupta-Vidya" ?
>
> Dalai Lama, J. Krushnamurti, or C. W. Leadbeater?
>
> M. Sufilight
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: nhcareyta
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 2:02 AM
> Subject: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
> Dear Cass
>
> If I may add to your discussion, your point concerning
> a teacher rather than Messiah is, from my perspective,
> well made and significant.
>
> Moreover, Madame Blavatsky's words "...numerous and
> united body of people..." and "..an organisation awaiting
> his arrival..." are also significant.
>
> As I have mentioned previously, in 1973 the Dalai Lama
> first visited the West in Europe.
> He found "...numerous and united body of people..."
> and an organisational structure ready for his teachings.
> Many of these teachings are theosophical and from Madame
> Blavatsky's masters' tradition.
> She was entrusted to bring some of these same teachings to
> the West a century earlier.
> The Dalai Lama has certainly been a torchbearer for the light
> of compassion and non-violence in the world.
> And contrary to most religions, he also teaches we have to
> discover the nature of our self, by ourselves, through
> studying our mind and not through blindly following dogma,
> despite his tradition's many dogmas.
>
> Kind regards
> Nigel
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Cass Silva wrote:
> >
> > No I haven't - Blavatsky stated "the next impulse will find a
> numerous and united body
> > of people ready to welcome the new torch-bearer of Truth. He will
> find the minds of men prepared for his message, a language ready for
> him in which to clothe the new truths he brings, an organization
> awaiting his arrival . . . ." The Key to Theosophy, pp. 306-7.
> Italics added.
> >
> > She stated a "new torch-bearer of Truth" which isn't the same thing
> as a 'new messiah' - I see no problem in translating torch bearer
> into teacher?
> >
> > Cass
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > From: Morten Nymann Olesen
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, 11 January, 2009 8:41:05 PM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> >
> >
> > No.
> > You wrote:
> > "I believe Krishnamurti fulfilled Blavatsky prediction that a
> Teacher would come"
> >
> > I take it that you have changed your mind or wanted to tell me
> something else.
> >
> > - - -
> >
> > And you did not answer my questions.
> > And I ask myself why.
> >
> > M. Sufilight
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Cass Silva
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 3:29 AM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> >
> > As I have said he was a lesser teacher - as we have mini cycles we
> also have mini teachers - if you get my point
> > Cass
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > From: Morten Nymann Olesen
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, 10 January, 2009 8:55:54 PM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> >
> > Dear friends and Cass
> >
> > My views are:
> >
> > Cass wrote:
> > "I believe Krishnamurti fulfilled Blavatsky prediction that a
> Teacher would come"
> >
> > My answer:
> > I see no reason to believe this. A Trre is known on its fruits.
> >
> > ". . .during the last quarter of every hundred years an attempt is
> made by those 'Masters' . . . to help on the spiritual progress of
> Humanity in a marked and definite way. Towards the close of each
> century you will invariably find that an outpouring or upheaval of
> spirituality - or call it mysticism if you prefer - has taken place.
> Some one or more persons have appeared in the world as their agents,
> and a greater or less amount of occult knowledge and teaching has
> been given out . . . . .If the present attempt, in the form of our
> Society, succeeds better than its predecessors have done, then it
> will be in existence as an organized, living and healthy body when
> the time comes for the effort of the XXth century. The general
> condition of men's minds and hearts will have been improved and
> purified by the spread of its teachings . . . . but besides a large
> and accessible literature ready to men's hands, the next impulse will
> find a numerous and united body
> > of people ready to welcome the new torch-bearer of Truth. He will
> find the minds of men prepared for his message, a language ready for
> him in which to clothe the new truths he brings, an organization
> awaiting his arrival . . . ." The Key to Theosophy, pp. 306-7.
> Italics added.
> >
> > My answer:
> >
> > 1.
> > I did not see an Organisation awaiting his (J. Krishnamurti' s)
> arrival. He was made a Messiah by the mis-conduct C. W. Leadbeater to
> promote his and Annie Besants fantasies about a Messiah in the flesh
> as something theosophical.
> >
> > 2.
> > He (J. Krishnamurti' s) if true, came 50 years earlier than
> predicted by H. P. Blavatsky. Do any of youreally HONESTLY within
> your minds find it to be possible that H. P. Blavatsky and her
> Masters was so bad in calculating when a new out-pouring would come?
> >
> > If you compare J. Krishnamurti with other contemporary spiritual
> teacher and later teacher I find him to be a gnat in front of an
> elephant when compared with for instance persons like Idries Shah's
> teachings, Sathya Sai Baba's teachings, and even the persons behind
> the Disclosure Project on Ufology.
> >
> > 3.
> > Do you honstely find his (J. Krishnamurti' s) messages to be NEW?
> >
> > 4.
> > The body was not "united". It exploded thanks to C. W. Leadbeater
> and Annie Bests misconducts. How on earth can people find themselves
> believing, that the World Teacher of the Age was discovered
> SINGLEHANDEDLY by a man who just 3 years earlier was thrown out of
> the TS because of Sexual misconduct, something even admitted by
> himself? And a "body" which litterally en C. W. Leadbeater was
> admitted entrance to the Society again, forcing a great number of
> honest theosophists to resign?
> > Why should such an activity be the hallmark of theosophical TRUTH
> and COMPASSION?
> > I call it a disgrace!
> >
> > 5.
> > Why do you not find H. P. Blavatsky's masters being more able to
> predict the future than Annie Besant's ?
> >
> > M. Sufilight
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Cass Silva
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 12:48 AM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> >
> > It was Leadbeater who pronounced Krishnamurti as being the new
> World Teacher - Besant went along with it even though she should have
> known better - Messiah's are not found on beaches - I believe
> Krishnamurti fulfilled Blavatsky prediction that a Teacher would
> come - Leadbeater and Besant presumed the teacher would be a World
> Teacher - a christ acting through maitreya - the whole episode
> confounds me as Besant and Leadbeater must have been aware that such
> a World Teacher would not have required any education from those
> lesser evolved.
> > I believe Krishnamurti when he reached adulthood recognised the
> bullshit - that he was not the second christ but could offer the
> world a new teaching on the self, hence his reasoning to abandon
> everything that supported the second christ claim.
> >
> > Cass
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > From: Morten Nymann Olesen
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, 10 January, 2009 3:13:49 AM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> >
> > Yes. - Let me rephrase it:
> > And her activities when talking about J. Krishnamurti?
> >
> > M. Sufilight
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Cass Silva
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 11:33 PM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> >
> > Morten - you are wrong Besant did not carnalize Jesus
> > Cass
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > From: Morten Nymann Olesen
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > Sent: Friday, 9 January, 2009 3:58:08 AM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> >
> > Dear Pedro and friends
> >
> > My views are:
> >
> > Pedro asked:
> > "Why not burn them in public places, with sufficient notice given
> to
> > those interested to attend?"
> >
> > My answer and questions:
> >
> > Why especially seek to burn them all like revolutionaries? Why not
> just simply avoid selling them?
> > Let each person have their free choice in accordance with the Law
> of Karma. And let us tell people that we do NOT promote and sell
> these books, and that we have our reasons for not doing so. They are -
> perhaps and only perhaps - available at our libraries alongside the
> books by the Spiritists, the Christian dogmatics and other misleading
> teachings.
> >
> > Can you with your compassionate heart and conscience say to any
> beginner seeker who visits a TS Bookshop say:
> > "Try this book. It is very good. It was written by one of the best
> theosophical authors of the past 150 years, and he was indeed a good
> and wise man? Honestly Pedro, if you agree to this I will have to ask
> you: What planet do you come from?
> >
> > Pedro asked:
> > "As a matter of fact, why stop at
> > Leadbeater's books? Why not include Besant's, Arundale's,
> > Jinarajadasa' s, Sri Ram's, Taimni's and perhaps many others?"
> >
> > My answer and question:
> > Each authors books and literary output have to valued in the face
> of their contents and whether the individual author stands as a
> disgrace to the theosophical teachings. H. P. Blavatsky clearly spake
> out against selling all kind of books. And TS Adyar are not selling
> all kind of books.
> >
> > Today we theosophists are faced with numerous websites bashing the
> theosophical teachings because of C. W. Leadbeaters misconduct and
> the promotion of a Messiah only 3 years after he were thrown out of
> the Society.
> > You tell them all and tell us, that we and they ALL are wrong in
> their and our views on C. W. Leadbeater dammaging behaviour to the TS
> teachings as they were given by H. P. Blavatsky and Master.
> >
> > I had to start at one place, and choose CWL. And yes, maybe other
> authors books aught to be prevented from being sold so not to damage
> the WISDOM TEACHINGS of ALL AGES PAST. What do each of you think the
> Master would say if you just would go on and sell all and everything.
> >
> > Remember H. P. Blavatsky for instance recommended reading Hargrave
> Jennings book about The Rosicrucians: Their Rites and Mysteries
> (1870). And she did well doing it. Can we say the same about C. W.
> Leadbeaters books? No certainly not!
> >
> > These are some the differences in view Pedro.
> > I will avoid to promote something that damages the WISDOM TEACHINGS
> of ALL AGES PAST.
> > Whereas I find that you appearntly would allow this damage to take
> full effect in a Christian Church or something almost similar to it?
> >
> > - - -
> > Now, Annie Besant, C. W. Leadbeater and Alice A. Bailey promotes
> the idea of a carnalized saviour in the flesh. They do it by the use
> of pseudo-Christian vocabulary, I will admit that. But they DO it.
> >
> > H. P. Blavatsky spoke about against this idea of emotionalism.
> > And when people will teach theosophy they aught to consider the
> following views by H. P. Blavatsky.
> >
> > H.P. Blavatsky wrote in December 1887:
> >
> > In CARNALIZING the central figure of the New Testament, in imposing
> > the dogma of the Word MADE FLESH, the Latin Church sets up a
> doctrine
> > diametrically opposed to the tenets of Buddhist and Hindu
> Esotericism
> > and the Greek Gnosis. Therefore, there will always be an abyss
> > between the East and the West, as long as neither of these dogmas
> > yields. Almost 2,000 years of bloody persecution against HERETICS
> > and INFIDELS by the Church looms before the Oriental nations to
> > prevent them from renouncing their philosophic doctrines in favor of
> > that which degrades the CHRISTOS principle. [372-373]
> >
> > ...the Christians, by localizing and isolating this great Principle,
> > and denying it to any other man except Jesus of Nazareth (or the
> > Nazar), CARNALIZE the Christos of the Gnostics; that alone prevents
> > them having any point in common with the disciples of the Archaic
> > Wisdom. . . . [374]
> >
> > . . . true Theosophists will never accept ...a Christ made
> > Flesh. . . .[390]
> >
> > - - -
> >
> > C.W. XII, p. 501-
> >
> > (From the "Book of Discipline" in the schools of "Dzyan.")
> >
> > "1. To the earnest Disciple his Teacher takes the place of Father
> and Mother. For, whereas they gave him his body and its faculties,
> its life and casual form, the Teacher shows him how to develop the
> inner faculties for the acquisition of the Eternal Wisdom.
> >
> > "2. To the Disciple each Fellow-Disciple becomes a Brother and
> Sister, a portion of himself, for his interests and aspirations are
> theirs, his welfare interwoven with theirs, his progress helped or
> hindered by their intelligence, morality, and behavior through the
> intimacy brought about by their co-discipleship.
> >
> > "3. A co-disciple or associate cannot backslide or fall out of the
> line without affecting those who stand firm through the sympathetic
> tie between themselves and the psychical currents between them and
> their Teacher.
> >
> > "4. Woe to the deserter, woe also to all who help to bring his soul
> to the point where desertion first presents itself before his mind's
> eye, as the lesser of two evils. Gold in the crucible is he who
> stands the melting heat of trial, and lets only the dross be burnt
> out of his heart; accursed by Karmic action will find himself he who
> throws dross into the melting-pot of discipleship for the debasement
> of his fellow-pupil. As the members to the body, so are the disciples
> to each other, and to the Head and Heart which teach and nourish them
> with the life-stream of Truth.
> >
> > "5. As the limbs defend the head and heart of the body they belong
> to, so have the disciples to defend the head and the heart of the
> body they belong to (in this case Theosophy) from injury."
> >
> > (From the Letter of a Master.)
> >
> > " ... and if the limbs have to defend the head and heart of their
> body, then why not so, also, the Disciples their Teachers as
> representing the SCIENCE of Theosophy which contains and
> >
> > ----------
> > * "So shalt thou be in full accord with all that lives; bear love
> to men as though they were thy brother-pupils, disciples of one
> Teacher, the sons of one sweet mother." (Vide Fragment III, in Voice
> of the Silence, p. 49.)
> > ----------
> >
> > Page 503
> >
> > includes the 'head' of their privilege, the 'heart' of their
> spiritual growth? Saith the Scripture: -
> >
> > "He who wipeth not away the filth with which the parent's body may
> have been defiled by an enemy, neither loves the parent nor honours
> himself. He who defendeth not the persecuted and the helpless, who
> giveth not of his food to the starving nor draweth water from his
> well for the thirsty, hath been born too soon in human shape. "
> >
> > http://www.katinkah esselink. net/blavatsky/ articles/ v12/y1890_
> 052.htm
> >
> > M. Sufilight
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Pedro Oliveira
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 8:01 AM
> > Subject: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" > > theosophy@ .> wrote:
> >
> > > So therefore I would keep recommending: Stop selling books by C.
> > W. Leadbeater and his LLC Church.
> >
> > Why not burn them in public places, with sufficient notice given to
> > those interested to attend? As a matter of fact, why stop at
> > Leadbeater's books? Why not include Besant's, Arundale's,
> > Jinarajadasa' s, Sri Ram's, Taimni's and perhaps many others?
> >
> > In view of the statemts included in it, such as the ones below,
> > should not "The Secret Doctrine" be also considered as a book whose
> > sale may not be allowed to go on?
> >
> > "The Aryan views of the symbolism were those of the whole Pagan
> > world; the Semite interpretations emanated from, and were pre-
> > eminently those of a small tribe, thus marking its national
> features
> > and the idiosyncratic defects that characterize many of the Jews to
> > this day - gross realism, selfishness, and sensuality. They had
> made
> > a bargain, through their father Jacob, with their tribal deity,
> self-
> > exalted above all others, and a covenant that his "seed shall be as
> > the dust of the earth"; and that deity could have no better image
> > henceforth than that of the symbol of generation, and, as
> > representation, a number and numbers." (SD, vol. II, p. 470)
> >
> > "But Phallic worship has developed only with the gradual loss of
> the
> > keys to the inner meaning of religious symbols; and there was a day
> > when the Israelites had beliefs as pure as the Aryans have. But now
> > Judaism, built solely on Phallic worship, has become one of the
> > latest creeds in Asia, and theologically a religion of hate and
> > malice toward everyone and everything outside themselves. Philo
> > JudÃÂus shows what was the genuine Hebrew faith. The sacred
> Writings,
> > he says, prescribe what we ought to do . . . commanding us to hate
> > the heathen and their laws and institutions. They did hate Baal or
> > Bacchus worship publicly, but left its worst features to be
> followed
> > secretly; and it is with the Talmudic Jews that the grand symbols
> of
> > nature were the most profaned. With them, as now shown by the
> > discovery of the key to the correct Bible reading - Geometry, the
> > fifth divine Science ("fifth" - because it is the fifth key in the
> > series of the Seven Keys to the Universal esoteric language and
> > symbology) was desecrated, and by them applied to conceal the most
> > terrestrial and grossly sexual mysteries, wherein both Deity and
> > religion were degraded." (SD, vol. II, p. 471)
> >
> > On the other hand, an easier solution would be to allow people the
> > freedom to choose what they want to read and study. Alas, this has
> > always been the most difficult path to follow, particularly for
> those
> > bred and born with the nourishment of the received truth.
> >
> > Pedro
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
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