Theos-Talk Archives (January 2009 Message tt00249)

and Nigel, I found this in the 1st edition Dawn Magazine - anyone know if this wasÂsubsequently banned by besant/leadbeater?Â
Cass

Theo.: If the present attempt, in the form of our Society, succeeds better than its predecessors have done, then it will be in existence as an organized, living and healthy body when the time comes for the effort of the twentieth century. The general condition of men's minds and hearts will have been improved and purified by the spread of its teachings, and, as I have said, their prejudices and dogmatic illusions will have been, to some extent at least, removed. Not only so, but besides a large and accessible literature ready to men's hands, the next impulse will find a numerous and united body of people ready to welcome the new torch-bearer of Truth. He will find the minds of men prepared for his message, a language ready for him in which to clothe the new truths he brings, an organization awaiting his arrival, which will remove the merely mechanical, material obstacles and difficulties from his path. Think how much one, to whom such an opportunity is
 given, could accomplish. Measure it by comparison with what the Theosophical Society - actually - has achieved in the last fourteen years, without any of these advantages and surrounded by hosts of hindrances which would not hamper the new leader. Consider all this, and then tell me whether I am too sanguine when I say - that if the Theosophical Society survives and lives true to its mission, to its original impulses through the next hundred years - tell me, I say, if I go too far in asserting that earth will be a heaven in the twenty-first century in comparison with what it is now!




________________________________
From: nhcareyta <nhcareyta@yahoo.com.au>
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, 10 January, 2009 10:58:51 AM
Subject: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?


Dear Cass

I agree with all you write below.

Madame Blavatsky brought profound occult knowledge, whilst Jiddu 
Krishnamurti became the perfect adjunct, through encouraging us to 
believe nothing and to seriously and deeply investigate the nature of 
our self with its predispositions, prejudices and conditioning.

Kind regards
Nigel

--- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@ ...> wrote:
>
> It was Leadbeater who pronounced Krishnamurti as being the new 
World Teacher - Besant went along with it even though she should have 
known better - Messiah's are not found on beaches - I believe 
Krishnamurti fulfilled Blavatsky prediction that a Teacher would 
come - Leadbeater and Besant presumed the teacher would be a World 
Teacher - a christ acting through maitreya - the whole episode 
confounds me as Besant and Leadbeater must have been aware that such 
a World Teacher would not have required any education from those 
lesser evolved.
> I believe Krishnamurti when he reached adulthood recognisedÃÂthe 
bullshit - ÃÂthat he was not the second christ but could offer the 
world a new teaching on the self, hence his reasoning to abandon 
everything that supported the second christ claim.
> 
> Cass
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ ...>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> Sent: Saturday, 10 January, 2009 3:13:49 AM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
> 
> Yes. - Let me rephrase it:
> And her activities when talking about J. Krishnamurti?
> 
> M. Sufilight
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Cass Silva 
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 11:33 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
> Morten - you are wrong Besant did not carnalize Jesus
> Cass
> 
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> Sent: Friday, 9 January, 2009 3:58:08 AM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
> Dear Pedro and friends
> 
> My views are:
> 
> Pedro asked:
> "Why not burn them in public places, with sufficient notice given 
to 
> those interested to attend?"
> 
> My answer and questions:
> 
> Why especially seek to burn them all like revolutionaries? Why not 
just simply avoid selling them?
> Let each person have their free choice in accordance with the Law 
of Karma. And let us tell people that we do NOT promote and sell 
these books, and that we have our reasons for not doing so. They are -
perhaps and only perhaps - available at our libraries alongside the 
books by the Spiritists, the Christian dogmatics and other misleading 
teachings.
> 
> Can you with your compassionate heart and conscience say to any 
beginner seeker who visits a TS Bookshop say: 
> "Try this book. It is very good. It was written by one of the best 
theosophical authors of the past 150 years, and he was indeed a good 
and wise man? Honestly Pedro, if you agree to this I will have to ask 
you: What planet do you come from?
> 
> Pedro asked:
> "As a matter of fact, why stop at 
> Leadbeater's books? Why not include Besant's, Arundale's, 
> Jinarajadasa' s, Sri Ram's, Taimni's and perhaps many others?"
> 
> My answer and question:
> Each authors books and literary output have to valued in the face 
of their contents and whether the individual author stands as a 
disgrace to the theosophical teachings. H. P. Blavatsky clearly spake 
out against selling all kind of books. And TS Adyar are not selling 
all kind of books. 
> 
> Today we theosophists are faced with numerous websites bashing the 
theosophical teachings because of C. W. Leadbeaters misconduct and 
the promotion of a Messiah only 3 years after he were thrown out of 
the Society.
> You tell them all and tell us, that we and they ALL are wrong in 
their and our views on C. W. Leadbeater dammaging behaviour to the TS 
teachings as they were given by H. P. Blavatsky and Master.
> 
> I had to start at one place, and choose CWL. And yes, maybe other 
authors books aught to be prevented from being sold so not to damage 
the WISDOM TEACHINGS of ALL AGES PAST. What do each of you think the 
Master would say if you just would go on and sell all and everything. 
> 
> Remember H. P. Blavatsky for instance recommended reading Hargrave 
Jennings book about The Rosicrucians: Their Rites and Mysteries 
(1870). And she did well doing it. Can we say the same about C. W. 
Leadbeaters books? No certainly not!
> 
> These are some the differences in view Pedro.
> I will avoid to promote something that damages the WISDOM TEACHINGS 
of ALL AGES PAST.
> Whereas I find that you appearntly would allow this damage to take 
full effect in a Christian Church or something almost similar to it?
> 
> - - -
> Now, Annie Besant, C. W. Leadbeater and Alice A. Bailey promotes 
the idea of a carnalized saviour in the flesh. They do it by the use 
of pseudo-Christian vocabulary, I will admit that. But they DO it.
> 
> H. P. Blavatsky spoke about against this idea of emotionalism.
> And when people will teach theosophy they aught to consider the 
following views by H. P. Blavatsky.
> 
> H.P. Blavatsky wrote in December 1887:
> 
> In CARNALIZING the central figure of the New Testament, in imposing
> the dogma of the Word MADE FLESH, the Latin Church sets up a 
doctrine
> diametrically opposed to the tenets of Buddhist and Hindu 
Esotericism
> and the Greek Gnosis. Therefore, there will always be an abyss
> between the East and the West, as long as neither of these dogmas
> yields. Almost 2,000 years of bloody persecution against HERETICS
> and INFIDELS by the Church looms before the Oriental nations to
> prevent them from renouncing their philosophic doctrines in favor of
> that which degrades the CHRISTOS principle. [372-373]
> 
> ...the Christians, by localizing and isolating this great Principle,
> and denying it to any other man except Jesus of Nazareth (or the
> Nazar), CARNALIZE the Christos of the Gnostics; that alone prevents
> them having any point in common with the disciples of the Archaic
> Wisdom. . . . [374]
> 
> . . . true Theosophists will never accept ...a Christ made
> Flesh. . . .[390]
> 
> - - -
> 
> C.W. XII, p. 501-
> 
> (From the "Book of Discipline" in the schools of "Dzyan.") 
> 
> "1. To the earnest Disciple his Teacher takes the place of Father 
and Mother. For, whereas they gave him his body and its faculties, 
its life and casual form, the Teacher shows him how to develop the 
inner faculties for the acquisition of the Eternal Wisdom. 
> 
> "2. To the Disciple each Fellow-Disciple becomes a Brother and 
Sister, a portion of himself, for his interests and aspirations are 
theirs, his welfare interwoven with theirs, his progress helped or 
hindered by their intelligence, morality, and behavior through the 
intimacy brought about by their co-discipleship. 
> 
> "3. A co-disciple or associate cannot backslide or fall out of the 
line without affecting those who stand firm through the sympathetic 
tie between themselves and the psychical currents between them and 
their Teacher. 
> 
> "4. Woe to the deserter, woe also to all who help to bring his soul 
to the point where desertion first presents itself before his mind's 
eye, as the lesser of two evils. Gold in the crucible is he who 
stands the melting heat of trial, and lets only the dross be burnt 
out of his heart; accursed by Karmic action will find himself he who 
throws dross into the melting-pot of discipleship for the debasement 
of his fellow-pupil. As the members to the body, so are the disciples 
to each other, and to the Head and Heart which teach and nourish them 
with the life-stream of Truth. 
> 
> "5. As the limbs defend the head and heart of the body they belong 
to, so have the disciples to defend the head and the heart of the 
body they belong to (in this case Theosophy) from injury." 
> 
> (From the Letter of a Master.)
> 
> " ... and if the limbs have to defend the head and heart of their 
body, then why not so, also, the Disciples their Teachers as 
representing the SCIENCE of Theosophy which contains and 
> 
> ----------
> * "So shalt thou be in full accord with all that lives; bear love 
to men as though they were thy brother-pupils, disciples of one 
Teacher, the sons of one sweet mother." (Vide Fragment III, in Voice 
of the Silence, p. 49.)
> ----------
> 
> Page 503
> 
> includes the 'head' of their privilege, the 'heart' of their 
spiritual growth? Saith the Scripture: - 
> 
> "He who wipeth not away the filth with which the parent's body may 
have been defiled by an enemy, neither loves the parent nor honours 
himself. He who defendeth not the persecuted and the helpless, who 
giveth not of his food to the starving nor draweth water from his 
well for the thirsty, hath been born too soon in human shape. "
> 
> http://www.katinkah esselink. net/blavatsky/ articles/ v12/y1890_ 
052.htm
> 
> M. Sufilight
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Pedro Oliveira 
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 8:01 AM
> Subject: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-
> theosophy@ .> wrote:
> 
> > So therefore I would keep recommending: Stop selling books by C. 
> W. Leadbeater and his LLC Church.
> 
> Why not burn them in public places, with sufficient notice given to 
> those interested to attend? As a matter of fact, why stop at 
> Leadbeater's books? Why not include Besant's, Arundale's, 
> Jinarajadasa' s, Sri Ram's, Taimni's and perhaps many others?
> 
> In view of the statemts included in it, such as the ones below, 
> should not "The Secret Doctrine" be also considered as a book whose 
> sale may not be allowed to go on?
> 
> "The Aryan views of the symbolism were those of the whole Pagan 
> world; the Semite interpretations emanated from, and were pre-
> eminently those of a small tribe, thus marking its national 
features 
> and the idiosyncratic defects that characterize many of the Jews to 
> this day - gross realism, selfishness, and sensuality. They had 
made 
> a bargain, through their father Jacob, with their tribal deity, 
self-
> exalted above all others, and a covenant that his "seed shall be as 
> the dust of the earth"; and that deity could have no better image 
> henceforth than that of the symbol of generation, and, as 
> representation, a number and numbers." (SD, vol. II, p. 470)
> 
> "But Phallic worship has developed only with the gradual loss of 
the 
> keys to the inner meaning of religious symbols; and there was a day 
> when the Israelites had beliefs as pure as the Aryans have. But now 
> Judaism, built solely on Phallic worship, has become one of the 
> latest creeds in Asia, and theologically a religion of hate and 
> malice toward everyone and everything outside themselves. Philo 
> JudÃÂus shows what was the genuine Hebrew faith. The sacred 
Writings, 
> he says, prescribe what we ought to do . . . commanding us to hate 
> the heathen and their laws and institutions. They did hate Baal or 
> Bacchus worship publicly, but left its worst features to be 
followed 
> secretly; and it is with the Talmudic Jews that the grand symbols 
of 
> nature were the most profaned. With them, as now shown by the 
> discovery of the key to the correct Bible reading - Geometry, the 
> fifth divine Science ("fifth" - because it is the fifth key in the 
> series of the Seven Keys to the Universal esoteric language and 
> symbology) was desecrated, and by them applied to conceal the most 
> terrestrial and grossly sexual mysteries, wherein both Deity and 
> religion were degraded." (SD, vol. II, p. 471)
> 
> On the other hand, an easier solution would be to allow people the 
> freedom to choose what they want to read and study. Alas, this has 
> always been the most difficult path to follow, particularly for 
those 
> bred and born with the nourishment of the received truth.
> 
> Pedro
> 
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