Theos-Talk Archives (November 2008 Message tt00232)

Anand,

I thank you for your reply. 

I will try to comment on some of your points.

You write:

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I don't think meaning of this statement is what you gave.
"If people are willing to accept and to regard
as God our ONE LIFE immutable and unconscious in its eternity they may
do so and thus keep to one more gigantic misnomer."
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Anand, you previously told us:

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As I understand this statement, Letter rejects the idea of ONE LIFE.
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In my previous reply, I simply stated that KH indeed teaches the idea 
of the ONE LIFE and I gave examples FROM SEVERAL PLACES in his letter 
where he clearly is speaking time and time again about the ONE LIFE.

So in fact Letter 10 doesn't reject the idea of the ONE LIFE.  It 
actually proclaims the truth of the idea of the ONE LIFE.

If you for some reason can't find these quotes or are finding it hard 
to understand them, I will give those quotes again.  Let me know.

Then you write:

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Below statements says One Life has properties of matter. That sounds
plainly wrong....It is not clear why Life is condemned in this letter
and matter is praised. Read below statement....Again here it is not
clear why matter is made supreme. Read statement below....Again
statement below is opposite of what spiritual classics teach.
Idea of pure Existence is called absurdity....
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And with each of these statements you give a quote from the Mahatma
letters.

But Anand, do you understand what KH is referring to when he writes
of "matter". And what is "Life" and "pure existence"?

>From your comments, it appears that you may NOT really understand the
underlying ideas being expressed by KH. 

BELOW is what KH says in another letter about "matter" and "spirit".

I would suggest that you carefully read and also study this quote and
see if you can understand the "idea" behind these words. I am not
asking you to accept or for that matter to reject the statement.
Just try to understand it and also ask yourself: could I [Anand] have
preconceptions or even misconceptions that are leading me astray and
are confusing me???

Here is what KH wrote:

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Nor did I ever become guilty of the heresy I am accused of -- in
reference to spirit and matter. The conception of matter and spirit
as ENTIRELY DISTINCT, and both eternal could certainly never have
entered my head, however little I may know of them, for it is one of
the elementary and fundamental doctrines of Occultism that THE TWO
ARE ONE and are DISTINCT BUT IN their respective manifestations, and
only in the limited perceptions of the world of senses. Far
from "lacking philosophical breadth" then, our doctrines show, but
ONE principle in nature, -- SPIRIT-MATTER or MATTER-SPIRIT, the third
the ultimate Absolute or the quintessence of the two, -- if I may be
allowed to use an erroneous term in the present application -- losing
itself beyond the view and spiritual perceptions of even the "Gods"
or Planetary Spirits. This third principle say the Vedantic
Philosophers -- is the only reality, everything else being Maya, as
NONE of the Protean manifestations of spirit-matter or Purusha and
Prakriti have ever been regarded in any other light than that of
TEMPORARY DELUSIONS of the senses. Even in the hardly outlined
philosophy of Isis this idea is clearly carried out. In the book of
Kiu-te, Spirit is called the ultimate sublimation of matter, and
matter the crystallization of spirit. And no better illustration
could be afforded than in the very simple phenomenon of ice, water,
vapour and the final dispersion of the latter, the phenomenon being
reversed in its consecutive manifestations and called the Spirit
failing into generation or matter. This trinity resolving itself into
unity, -- a doctrine as old as the world of thought -- was seized
upon by some early Christians, who had it in the schools of
Alexandria, and made up into the Father, or generative spirit; the
Son or matter, -- man; and into the Holy Ghost, the immaterial
essence, or the apex of the equilateral triangle, an idea found to
this day in the pyramids of Egypt. Thus once more it is proved that
you misunderstand my meaning entirely, whenever for the sake of
brevity I use a phraseology habitual with the Western
people....matter per se is indestructible, and as I maintain coeval
with spirit -- that spirit which we know and can conceive of.
Bereaved of Prakriti, Purusha (Spirit) is unable to manifest itself,
hence ceases to exist -- becomes nihil. Without spirit or Force, even
that which Science styles as "not living" matter, the so-called
mineral ingredients which feed plants, could never have been called
into form. There is a moment in the existence of every molecule and
atom of matter when, for one cause or another, the last spark of
spirit or motion or life (call it by whatever name) is withdrawn, and
in the same instant with the swiftness which surpasses that of the
lightning glance of thought the atom or molecule or an aggregation of
molecules is annihilated to return to its pristine purity of intra-
cosmic matter. It is drawn to the mother fount with the velocity of a
globule of quicksilver to the central mass. Matter, force, and motion
are the trinity of physical objective nature, as the trinitarian
unity of spirit-matter is that of the spiritual or subjective nature.
Motion is eternal because spirit is eternal. But no modes of motion
can ever be conceived unless they be in connection with matter.
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caps added.

Think of "matter" and "spirit" as the two poles of "existence".
Neither can "exist" in isolation.

"Spirit" cannot "exist" without "matter".

Anand, I have no idea what you mean by "spirit" or "matter". You
will have to define how you use and understand these terms.

But in the Mahatmas' philosophy, they cannot exist without each other.

This is gone over in great detail ALSO in various places in HPB's
writings. See THE SECRET DOCTRINE.

I give one quote from the SD which gives even more elucidation:

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Parabrahm (the One Reality, the Absolute) is the field of Absolute
Consciousness, i.e., that Essence which is out of all relation to
conditioned existence, and of which conscious existence is a
conditioned symbol. But once that we pass in thought from this (to
us) Absolute Negation, duality supervenes in the contrast of Spirit
(or consciousness) and Matter, Subject and Object.

Spirit (or Consciousness) and Matter are, however, to be regarded,
not as independent realities, but as the two facets or aspects of the
Absolute (Parabrahm), which constitute the basis of conditioned Being
whether subjective or objective.

Considering this metaphysical triad as the Root from which proceeds
all manifestation, the great Breath assumes the character of
precosmic Ideation. It is the fons et origo of force and of all
individual consciousness, and supplies the guiding intelligence in
the vast scheme of cosmic Evolution. On the other hand, precosmic
root-substance (Mulaprakriti) is that aspect of the Absolute which
underlies all the objective planes of Nature.

Just as pre-Cosmic Ideation is the root of all individual
consciousness, so pre-Cosmic Substance is the substratum of matter in
the various grades of its differentiation.

Hence it will be apparent that the contrast of these two aspects of
the Absolute is essential to the existence of the "Manifested
Universe." Apart from Cosmic Substance, Cosmic Ideation could not
manifest as individual consciousness, since it is only through a
vehicle of matter that consciousness wells up as "I am I," a physical
basis being necessary to focus a ray of the Universal Mind at a
certain stage of complexity. Again, apart from Cosmic Ideation,
Cosmic Substance would remain an empty abstraction, and no emergence
of consciousness could ensue.

The "Manifested Universe," therefore, is pervaded by duality, which
is, as it were, the very essence of its ex-istence as "manifestation."
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SD, Vol. I, page 15, original ed.

This quote from the SD helps one to understand all the quotes you
gave and that I gave from the Mahatma Letters.

As far as I can tell, they give a coherent and consistent teaching.

And if you disagree with this teaching, fine and good but you will
need to tell us why you disagree and show us that your "version" is
more coherent and consistent.

Daniel
http://hpb.cc