Theos-Talk Archives (November 2008 Message tt00187)

Dear John,

Thank you very much for your views which confirm my suspicions.

>What was your exact Position and Office in Theosophy in Yugoslavia 
when you wrote the article? ... I have no idea who "Mrs. J.A." is or 
even why one needs to be so cryptic.<

I wrote the article (as all the rest on the history of the TS in 
former Yugoslavia) last year as already a member of the Canadian 
Theosophical Association. I was never member of the TS in Yugoslavia 
as I joined the TS in Slovenia in 1992 and left it in 1996 but never 
hold any position in it. I used only titles and initials in this 
article because I concentrated on formal side of the problem and 
wanted to left the personalities out. I didn't have enough data to 
address the problem in a different way. The young lady used in this 
plot was Jelena Sikiriæ who after these events left Yugoslavia and 
apparently (as Konstantin told me) went to Russia.

>The other link you furnished did not present the intended page.<

Yes, link didn't work any more; here is the new one:
http://www.kelebekler.com/cesnur/txt/liv-gb.htm
And here is the TS document from the same site:
http://www.kelebekler.com/cesnur/txt/theosophy.htm

>The New Acropolis as far as I was able to discern here in the USA 
was very Theosophical in it's teachings and had zero vestige of right 
wing anything, and I defy anyone to prove otherwise, excluding of 
course communists fabrications and lies. I am also not surprised that 
they would be labeled as an "extreme right wing organization" by 
committed Communists or their allies in Europe and Yugoslavia during 
those years.<

The documents which depicted New Acropolis as "extreme right wing 
organization" were produced in Belgium and were handled by the Head 
of the ES in Yugoslavia who was an English lady and assisted by few 
other members of the ES and probably some agents of the secret police.

>It seems to me, and I can be reading it wrong that there were some 
hurt feelings and injured individuals when certain Lodges in 
Yugoslavia were decredentialed and the officers exiled in typical 
communist manner by the Yugoslavian communists. Do you really want us 
to believe the Freedom of thought and expression ruled under a 
Stalinist style rule there?<

Well, as almost entire Section was expelled there were certainly hurt 
feelings but above all great disappointment. There were many young, 
enthusiastic and active people there. And there were no serious 
problems until they didn't take over the Society in their hands. It 
was just a matter of control and to regain the control the ES was 
prepared to sacrifice entire section. In Yugoslavia there was certain 
freedom present until you didn't touch the interests of structures of 
power. In such a case the repression was brutal but sophisticated.

>When I was with the New Acropolis no one ever, at any time said any 
negative thing about the Theosophical Society in any form, ...... I 
was not able to glean how New Acropolis in such diminutive presence 
could injure anyone in Yugoslavia much less the substantial number of 
Lodges of so called Theosophy that were in conformity to the 
political wishes there.<

Yes, I suspected that this was the reality; poor young lady and her 
relation to NA was just used to discredit young leadership of the TS 
in Yugoslavia and to remove it. The whole story would be actually a 
farce if the consequences haven't been so harmful. 

Thanks again and warmest regards,
Anton


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Augoeides-222@... wrote:
>
> Anton,
>    Well I read your article and I don't see much explanatory 
information in it in regards to New Acropolis that informs me of any 
real data other than several repeated very diffused allegations that 
have no real details. I have no idea who "Mrs. J.A." is or even why 
one needs to be so cryptic. The New Acropolis as far as I was able to 
discern here in the USA was very Theosophical in it's teachings and 
had zero vestige of right wing anything, and I defy anyone to prove 
otherwise, excluding of course communists fabrications and lies. I am 
also not surprised that they would be labeled as an "extreme right 
wing organization" by committed Communists or their allies in Europe 
and Yugoslavia during those years.The other link you furnished did 
not present the intended page. As far as I know the New Acropolis and 
The School of Hastinapura were "independent" of Theosophical 
Societies proper and were not Registered as a Branch of Adyar or 
Wheaton USA, and as such were immune to that Organizat
> ions stipulatory codices, having their own internal codices. It 
seems to me, and I can be reading it wrong that there were some hurt 
feelings and injured individuals when certain Lodges in Yugoslavia 
were decredentialed and the officers exiled in typical communist  
manner by the Yugoslavian communists. Do you really want us to 
believe the Freedom of thought and expression ruled under a Stalinist 
style rule there?
> 
>   What was your exact Position and Office In Theosophy in 
Yugoslavia when you wrote the article?
> 
>  In a typical New Acropolis magazine the article headings were:
> 
> Plotinus: the philosophical monism by Doctor Ada Albrecht
> 
> Astronomy and music 
> 
> Kabbalah
> 
> The flute and the wind
> 
> The hidden motives of despair
> 
> Islamic Religion
> 
> Myth of Arthur, recovering it's symbolism
> 
> ( very extreme right wing??? lol)
> 
> 
>    I never knew there was a Federation of Europeon Theosophical 
Societies. But it sound like a Union to me lol !
> 
>    When I was with the New Acropolis no one ever, at any time said 
any negative thing about the Theosophical Society in any form, much 
less attempted in any shape, manner, or form to encourage anyone of 
the students to "infiltrate" any other organization whatsoever. This 
is my direct personal observation, just more "garbage" of the type we 
previously discussed. We were much too busy with attending classes, 
studying our assigned homework, and writing papers on the same. 
Preparing lectures and events, posting handouts and notices of events 
and lectures on telephone poles. We simply did not live on the 
oppressive suppressive onerous hateful evil environment you did. 
Theosophical Meetings here are all open the the general public and no 
one filters friends and enemy's at the door as was the case in 
Yugoslavia apparently.
>     The Director in LA New Acropolis came from The Paris Chapter of 
the New Acropolis caled the Pythagorean Branch where he had been 
Director there. He was Argentinian and had little command of English 
at that time. I totally respect his Theosophical learning and 
dedication to Theosophy, Blavatsky, the Mahatma's etc, and remain 
glad I had opportunity to learn from him. He arrived with little 
means on a mission impossible, and made it happen in LA. He was 
retained as a National Lecturer by Wheaton after the LA New Acropolis 
branch closed in LA. It was selfless service he gave to both 
organizations, there was no salary from Wheaton for their National 
Lecturers then. I still have my Class materials from then which were 
issued to me and  contained what was taught, there is no right wing 
anything in there. The new Acropolis in LA had no political activisms.
>  I never met Mr. Rivlaga but I did meet Ada Albrecht twice for 
short chat. She had excellent deportment. My observation.
> 
>   Theosophy is not proprietary property as a Philosophy, or Archaic 
Doctrine and the idea that the New Acropolis somehow expropriated 
someone else's domain is not real to me. I was not able to glean how 
New Acropolis in such diminutive presence could injure anyone in 
Yugoslavia much less the substantial number of Lodges of so called 
Theosophy that were in conformity to the political wishes there. If 
anyone was the villain if was the ruling party there, just my 
perception.
> 
>    I can speak only from my direct experiences in LA,California. 
But I doubt they had explicitly separate class materials for Europe, 
So. America, and USA other than language itself as it would be very 
counterproductive and costly.
> 
> Regards,
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------- Original message -------------- 
> From: "Anton Rozman" <anton_rozman@...> 
> 
> Dear John,
> 
> I wrote some messages on New Acropolis as it was somehow connected 
> with the decay of the Theosophical Society in former Yugoslavia. 
You 
> can see my article on this issue on:
> http://www.teozofija.info/Teozofsko_gibanje/Decay.htm
> 
> I have noticed on the net that, as you say, the Director of the New 
> Acropolis in USA was also one of the national featured lecturers 
used 
> by Wheaton Headquarters, and wondered how it is possible that this 
> was so, as in Europe and Adyar the New Acropolis was seen by 
leading 
> theosophists as political right wing organization which tried to 
> infiltrate and disrupt the TS.
> 
> Warmest regards,
> Anton
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Augoeides-222@ wrote:
> >
> > Hmmm,
> > Well many people here never even heard of "The New Acropolis" or 
> it's successor "The School of Hastinapura" they both taught 
> Theosophy. I was a founding member of the Western USA New Acropolis 
> in LA, the Director was and may still be a Member of this Forum 
ands 
> ws also one of the national featured lecturers used by Wheaton 
> Hdqtrs. The two organizations were originally founded by George 
Angel 
> Rivlag, Cheviale' de Spain, and his wife Ada Albrecht. They had 
> Branches in Europe, America, and So. America back in the mid- 
1907's. 
> The School of Hastinapura originated when a division occurred 
between 
> the Husband and wife Team. around 1978 or '79.
> > One could research using Reference Works like "The Directory of 
> Associations", I used to have it, but I donated it to a community 
> library.
> > 
> > Regards, 
> > John
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -------------- Original message -------------- 
> > From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-theosophy@> 
> > 
> > Yes.
> > But, where is the present day work in other parts of the world, 
> which the Master talked about?
> > Have some theosophists for years been underestimating the 
Himalayan 
> Lodge and the Masters?
> > 
> > And:
> > What were the lecturer Ernest Wood engaged in before he died?
> > What happened to Alice Leighton Cleather and Basil Crump in their 
> lives?
> > What happened to all those wise members who went away when CWL 
was 
> admitted inside again in 1908?
> > 
> > M. Sufilight
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: Martin 
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
> > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 8:03 PM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re:TS - Are we ready for a coup?
> > 
> > "There is more of this movement than you have yet had an inkling 
> of, and
> > the work of the T.S. is linked in with similar work that is 
secretly
> > going on in all parts of the world."
> > 
> > Guys&Dolls, this sais it all. It doesn't matter if the TS is 
burned 
> to smithereens; there is always a backup to be launched immediately 
> under a different name with different people, but with the same 
noble 
> hearts driving its course.
> > So puleaaaase quit this dramatic behavior and start preparing the 
> fireworks...
> > 
> > --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@> 
> wrote:
> > From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@>
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re:TS - Are we ready for a coup?
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 1:11 PM
> > 
> > Dear Anton
> > 
> > About the "dangerous" issue:
> > 
> > What you cannot change will die out. Just like ancient religions 
> from ages past.
> > 
> > Some branches do not bear fruit, and will heva to be released by 
> other branches.
> > 
> > Mahatma Letter 47:
> > 
> > "So let us talk -- for sharp as your voice may be, your heart is 
> warm and you end by saying "Whether you decree that what seems to 
me 
> right be done or not" you are ever ours faithfully etc. Europe is a 
> large place but the world is bigger yet. The sun of Theosophy must 
> shine for all, not for a part. There is more of this movement than 
> you have yet had an inkling of, and the work of the T.S. is linked 
in 
> with similar work that is secretly going on in all parts of the 
> world. " (http://www.theosoci ety.org/pasadena /mahatma/ ml-47.htm)
> > 
> > Anton wrote:
> > 
> > "And because members are not nucleuses of brotherhood yet"
> > 
> > My answer:
> > 
> > Do you know that?
> > 
> > Think about what you actually are saying.
> > 
> > Anton wrote:
> > 
> > "Well, the experience with the Esoteric Section shows that it 
> didn't 
> > 
> > achieve its goal "
> > 
> > My answer:
> > 
> > Some attempt end up in failure. And some persons fall on the Path.
> > 
> > It seems obvious, that Annie Besant tripped fell, although she 
also 
> did something good.
> > 
> > Anton wrote:
> > 
> > "Here I agree with Krishnamurti: You can not organize the 
> > 
> > Spiritual Path. It is a matter of each individual."
> > 
> > My answer:
> > 
> > But H. P. Blavatsky and the Masters did organise it, in part, and 
> with some success!
> > 
> > Because the real organisation is the Himalyan Lodge or the Master 
> Lodge.
> > 
> > Saying that the Masters are not esoterically organised and dis-
> organised is rubbish as far as I am concerned. The Path is the Law 
of 
> Karma. The Law of Karma is organised esoterically.
> > 
> > And no it is NOT as you say "a matter of each individual" alone.
> > 
> > In one sense your are quite right. But in another, it is a clear 
> fact, that we can never walk alone.
> > 
> > Never Anton. The world and the Oneness are there simultaniously. 
It 
> is a paradox.
> > 
> > Should we abandon Masters teachings and follow J. Krishnamurti 
and 
> reject all thoughts about chelaship, and learn to use occult powers 
> by our own? 
> > 
> > Never. Never ever.
> > 
> > M. Sufilight
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > 
> > From: Anton Rozman 
> > 
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> > 
> > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:41 AM
> > 
> > Subject: Theos-World Re:TS - Are we ready for a coup?
> > 
> > Dear Morten,
> > 
> > >Why is that a dangerous model?<
> > 
> > It is dangerous because it detours round the Society's 
> constitutional 
> > 
> > platform and its democratic process. 
> > 
> > >The main idea with the TS was and is hopefully, that each member 
> > 
> > will be strong enough to become a nucleus in herself or himself.<
> > 
> > This is an ideal to strive for but not the reality of the 
> situation. 
> > 
> > And because members are not nucleuses of brotherhood yet they 
> should 
> > 
> > apply to constitutional frame which role is to instruct and force 
> > 
> > them to behave in a fraternal manner.
> > 
> > >So creating a new TS running parallel with the present TS is not 
> bad 
> > 
> > at all if the present TS is not running properly.<
> > 
> > Well, the experience with the Esoteric Section shows that it 
didn't 
> > 
> > achieve its goal and that its members didn't become cohesive and 
> > 
> > fraternal force in the TS, quite the contrary. Every organization 
> > 
> > established by a spiritual authority for the spiritual progress 
of 
> > 
> > its members sooner or later becomes by default autocratic and 
> > 
> > dogmatic. Here I agree with Krishnamurti: You can not organize 
the 
> > 
> > Spiritual Path. It is a matter of each individual.
> > 
> > >Each member is only a member voluntarily.
> > 
> > Each group its own nucleus.
> > 
> > One should know one on ones fruits.
> > 
> > And importantly: One should recognize truth when it is proven.<
> > 
> > Yes, exactly. Why create new TS which will possibly respect the 
> > 
> > original program, constitutional platform and objects in a 
greater 
> > 
> > degree if this is possible already within the present TS as every 
> > 
> > lodge, national society and federation has all freedom to do 
that. 
> > 
> > The work must be done from the ground not from the top. The top 
can 
> > 
> > just encourage this with its own example. There are no shortcuts 
to 
> > 
> > greater democracy and spirituality - every member has to do 
her/his 
> > 
> > own homework. 
> > 
> > >This is the idea of TS and the beginning to Chela-ship.<
> > 
> > Well, this is the big question. Is the TS a tool for Chela-ship? 
On 
> > 
> > individual level it can and should be. But I think that it is 
much 
> > 
> > more than that. It is a tool for greater harmony and peace in the 
> > 
> > world - if it will work as it was meant to work.
> > 
> > Warmest regards,
> > 
> > Anton
> > 
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" 
<global-
> > 
> > theosophy@ .> wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > Dear Anton and friends
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > My views are:
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > Anton wrote:
> > 
> > > "In that way she established, in my view, a very dangerous 
model, 
> > 
> > > namely that any person who considers herself/himself or is 
> regarded 
> > 
> > > by others as a spiritual teacher can arbitrarily decide who is 
> > 
> > loyal 
> > 
> > > to the Cause and original program of the Society and act 
> > 
> > accordingly. "
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > M. Sufilight says:
> > 
> > > Why is that a dangerous model?
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > The main idea with the TS was and is hopefully, that each 
member 
> > 
> > will be strong enough to become a nucleus in herself or himself. 
So 
> > 
> > creating a new TS running parallel with the present TS is not bad 
> at 
> > 
> > all if the present TS is not running properly.
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > Each member are only a member volunterely.
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > Each group its own nucleus.
> > 
> > > One should know one on ones fruits.
> > 
> > > And importantly: One should recognize truth when it is proven.
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > "The bitter truth is that before man can know his own 
inadequacy, 
> > 
> > or the
> > 
> > > competence of another man or institution, he must first learn 
> > 
> > something
> > 
> > > which will enable him to perceive both. Note well that his 
> > 
> > perception
> > 
> > > itself is a product of right study; not of instinct or emotional
> > 
> > > attraction to the individual, nor yet of desiring to 'go it 
> alone'. 
> > 
> > This
> > 
> > > is 'Learning How To
> > 
> > > Learn." (Idries Shah)
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > This is the idea of TS and the beginning to Chela-ship.
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > M. Sufilight
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > 
> > > From: Anton Rozman 
> > 
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> > 
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 7:05 AM
> > 
> > > Subject: Theos-World Re:TS - Are we ready for a coup?
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > Dear friends,
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > I think that we, members of the TS, can do an enormous service 
to 
> > 
> > the 
> > 
> > > humanity if we will be able to solve the Society's problems in 
a 
> > 
> > > democratic and fraternal manner. This is the reason why efforts 
> > 
> > to 
> > 
> > > reform the Society are worthwhile. 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > Morten, you touched, in my opinion, the crucial problem: HPB 
> > 
> > actually 
> > 
> > > said that she is loyal to HSO, not because he is President of 
the 
> > 
> > > Society but because he is loyal to the Theosophical Cause and 
> > 
> > that 
> > 
> > > the degree of her sympathy with the Theosophical Society and 
> > 
> > Adyar 
> > 
> > > depends upon the degree of loyalty of that Society to the 
Cause. 
> > 
> > > Should it break away or show disloyalty to that Cause, and the 
> > 
> > > original program of the Society, she would shake it off like 
dust 
> > 
> > > from her feet. 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > In that way she established, in my view, a very dangerous 
model, 
> > 
> > > namely that any person who considers herself/himself or is 
> > 
> > regarded 
> > 
> > > by others as a spiritual teacher can arbitrarily decide who is 
> > 
> > loyal 
> > 
> > > to the Cause and original program of the Society and act 
> > 
> > accordingly. 
> > 
> > > And already superficial overview of the TS history shows that 
> > 
> > those 
> > 
> > > who considered themselves or were viewed by others as spiritual 
> > 
> > > leaders (who are in touch with Masters or know what Masters 
> > 
> > thought) 
> > 
> > > were at the same time source of disagreements and schisms in 
the 
> > 
> > > Society. This model is still very alive and I think that the 
> > 
> > Society 
> > 
> > > will not be able to solve its problems if it will not be able 
to 
> > 
> > > address this issue properly. 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > And Richard's parody is wonderful indication of our ludicrous 
> > 
> > > situation.
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > Warmest regards,
> > 
> > > Anton
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Drpsionic@ wrote:
> > 
> > > >
> > 
> > > > Choke choke laugh laugh choke laugh!
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > The scare part it is that it might be true!
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > Chuck the Heretic
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > In a message dated 11/8/2008 6:55:16 P.M. Central Standard 
> > 
> > Time, 
> > 
> > > > semockr@ writes:
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > I have heard that the Dalai Lama is dropping out of his 
> > 
> > position 
> > 
> > > as 
> > 
> > > > figurehead or spokesman for a free Tibet since none of his 
> > 
> > > > initiatives in this regard have had the slightest impact on 
the 
> > 
> > > > communist govt that has Tibet in its deadly embrace.
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > This implys that president elect Obama has approached him 
with 
> > 
> > an 
> > 
> > > > offer to join his Administration of Change as secretary of 
> > 
> > Ancient 
> > 
> > > > Wisdom which is a new department that is being formed in the 
> > 
> > > > executive branch. DK & KH were originally approached for the 
> > 
> > > position 
> > 
> > > > but they would only agree to precipitate an email now and 
then 
> > 
> > by 
> > 
> > > way 
> > 
> > > > of communication and this was not sufficient contact to 
satisfy 
> > 
> > > the 
> > 
> > > > ex-hippies that Obama is seeding his cabinet with.
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > For the first time in history then, the SD has a real chance 
to 
> > 
> > > > replace the Bible and to have Theosophy occupy its rightful 
> > 
> > place 
> > 
> > > as 
> > 
> > > > Law of the Land in the USA. After this has taken place, the 
> > 
> > other 
> > 
> > > > countrys will fall in line and Theosophy will experience a 
> > 
> > > resurgence 
> > 
> > > > that will beggar description of any previous coup. 
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > --- In _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos-
> > 
> > > talk@yahoogroups. com) , 
> > 
> > > > MKR <mkr777@> wrote:
> > 
> > > > >
> > 
> > > > > Well said.
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > "Proof of the pudding is in the eating."
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > Looking at the membership trend over the last 20 years 
world-
> > 
> > > wide 
> > 
> > > > outside of
> > 
> > > > > India, there is a continuing steep decline. It continues 
> > 
> > every 
> > 
> > > > minute.
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > The structure of TS was deliberately setup by the wise ones 
> > 
> > with 
> > 
> > > > total
> > 
> > > > > autonomy at lodge and section levels. So the buck stops at 
> > 
> > the 
> > 
> > > > sections.
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > To address any problem, first correct problem has to be 
> > 
> > > identified. 
> > 
> > > > Then
> > 
> > > > > solutions can be found.
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > Today's critical problem of TS is steep decline in 
membership 
> > 
> > in 
> > 
> > > all
> > 
> > > > > sections outside India. This is obvious. None of 
> > 
> > the "leaders" 
> > 
> > > > even wants
> > 
> > > > > to talk about it, because much of the decline took place in 
> > 
> > > their 
> > 
> > > > watch and
> > 
> > > > > they have no explanation.
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > Meddling with International Rules is not going to do 
anything 
> > 
> > to 
> > 
> > > > address the
> > 
> > > > > membership growth, because TS is not a spiritual 
organization 
> > 
> > > held 
> > 
> > > > together
> > 
> > > > > by blind followers with blind faith and blind beliefs.
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > It is all about a handful of GC members trying to do away 
> > 
> > with 
> > 
> > > > members'
> > 
> > > > > rights and seize power. That would give access to all the 
> > 
> > assets 
> > 
> > > > which they
> > 
> > > > > can spend as they want. In addition, they can put their 
> > 
> > Puppet 
> > 
> > > as 
> > 
> > > > the
> > 
> > > > > President with wings clipped. Losers will be members, TS 
and 
> > 
> > > > theosophy.
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > And it would destroy TS in our life time, as members leave.
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > That is where we are today.
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > MKR
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 6:05 AM, Duane Carpenter 
> > 
> > > > <monad_monad_ monad_mon
> > 
> > > > > > wrote:
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > > All membership comes from inspiration. All inspiration 
> > 
> > comes 
> > 
> > > from
> > 
> > > > > > enlightened leadership. It often takes great luminaries 
> > 
> > like 
> > 
> > > HPB 
> > 
> > > > to light a
> > 
> > > > > > fire in those around them. If the structure of the 
> > 
> > Theosophical
> > 
> > > > > > Society keeps out purposely or by default those of 
advanced 
> > 
> > > > spiritual
> > 
> > > > > > development they will never attract new members. If new 
and 
> > 
> > > > enlightened
> > 
> > > > > > leadership do not come into an organization or 
institution 
> > 
> > to 
> > 
> > > > give it
> > 
> > > > > > continue renewal and spiritual life that institution will 
> > 
> > die 
> > 
> > > a 
> > 
> > > > slow
> > 
> > > > > > agonizing death from bureaucratic minutiae and 
> > 
> > organizational 
> > 
> > > > suffocation.
> > 
> > > > > > This is why some advocate revolution. If you cannot 
reform 
> > 
> > and 
> > 
> > > > change the
> > 
> > > > > > old structures you either create new ones in there place 
or 
> > 
> > > get 
> > 
> > > > out of the
> > 
> > > > > > way and let those more responsive to the new Aquarian 
> > 
> > impulses 
> > 
> > > do 
> > 
> > > > there
> > 
> > > > > > work.
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > DC
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > ____________ ____ ____ 
> > 
> > > > > > From: MKR <mkr777@>
> > 
> > > > > > To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos-
> > 
> > > talk@yahoogroups. com) 
> > 
> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 8, 2008 6:46:43 AM
> > 
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re:TS - Are we ready for a coup?
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > From an ordinary intelligent person's view, as I have 
> > 
> > > mentioned 
> > 
> > > > several
> > 
> > > > > > time
> > 
> > > > > > previously, the most urgent real issue facing the TS is 
NOT 
> > 
> > > > changing the
> > 
> > > > > > rules.
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > It is the rapid and continuing decline in the number of 
> > 
> > > members 
> > 
> > > > in all the
> > 
> > > > > > sections outside India.
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > TS was setup as fully autonomous at lodge and section 
> > 
> > levels. 
> > 
> > > So 
> > 
> > > > the
> > 
> > > > > > problem
> > 
> > > > > > is the problem of section leaders and hard work of the 
> > 
> > members 
> > 
> > > in 
> > 
> > > > the
> > 
> > > > > > section. Any amount of meddling with the rules is going 
to 
> > 
> > do 
> > 
> > > > nothing to
> > 
> > > > > > address the problem. The only thing that will do to by 
> > 
> > > tweaking 
> > 
> > > > and
> > 
> > > > > > meddling
> > 
> > > > > > with the rules is for the GC members to disenfranchise 
the 
> > 
> > > > members and
> > 
> > > > > > seize
> > 
> > > > > > the control of the presidency and thus effectively making 
> > 
> > the 
> > 
> > > > president a
> > 
> > > > > > puppet in the hands of a few GC members.
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > Once this happens, in our life time we will see the end 
of 
> > 
> > TS 
> > 
> > > > because we
> > 
> > > > > > are
> > 
> > > > > > not like other spiritual organizations whose basis is 
blind 
> > 
> > > faith 
> > 
> > > > and blind
> > 
> > > > > > beliefs.
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > Has anyone seen any GC member ever mention the membership 
> > 
> > > decline 
> > 
> > > > issue? It
> > 
> > > > > > is a very sorry state of affairs.
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > mkr
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 2:17 AM, Anton Rozman 
> > 
> > <anton_rozman@ ant>
> > 
> > > > > > wrote:
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > > Dear friends,
> > 
> > > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > > What is the main interest of the Theosophical Society 
as 
> > 
> > an
> > 
> > > > > > > international institution or common interest of all 
> > 
> > members 
> > 
> > > of 
> > 
> > > > the
> > 
> > > > > > > Theosophical Society?
> > 
> > > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > > In first place, to neutralize all partial interests of 
> > 
> > > > individual
> > 
> > > > > > > members or groups of members which identify themselves 
> > 
> > with 
> > 
> > > > those of
> > 
> > > > > > > the Theosophical Society and in that way to be able to 
> > 
> > > realize 
> > 
> > > > its
> > 
> > > > > > > objects on the basis of its constitutional platform. In 
> > 
> > > present
> > 
> > > > > > > situation common interest is wholly absent and crippled.
> > 
> > > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > > The scissors and linen to overcome it are wholly in the 
> > 
> > > hands 
> > 
> > > > of the
> > 
> > > > > > > elected President. She, and only she, has received a 
> > 
> > mandate 
> > 
> > > to 
> > 
> > > > unify
> > 
> > > > > > > the Society under a common interest. She has the power 
> > 
> > and 
> > 
> > > > authority
> > 
> > > > > > > to do that.
> > 
> > > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > > It is obvious that routine proceedings aren't enough to 
> > 
> > > solve 
> > 
> > > > actual
> > 
> > > > > > > problem. According to Rules and Regulations the 
President 
> > 
> > has
> > 
> > > > > > > authority to: ââ,¬Â¦ a special meeting may be called 
at 
> > 
> > any 
> > 
> > > time by 
> > 
> > > > the
> > 
> > > > > > > President ââ,¬Â¦ the President at his discretion may 
> > 
> > call such 
> > 
> > > > members to
> > 
> > > > > > > a meeting for the purpose of study and discussion of 
any 
> > 
> > > matters
> > 
> > > > > > > concerning the Society that he considers appropriate to 
> > 
> > lay 
> > 
> > > > before
> > 
> > > > > > > them. The meeting may then forward to the President its 
> > 
> > > report 
> > 
> > > > on
> > 
> > > > > > > such matters and may make recommendations thereon. Such 
> > 
> > > meetings
> > 
> > > > > > > shall be of a consultative nature without 
administrative 
> > 
> > or
> > 
> > > > > > > legislative authority, or may be of a legislative 
nature 
> > 
> > > upon 
> > 
> > > > the
> > 
> > > > > > > decision of the General Council taken at least one year 
> > 
> > in 
> > 
> > > > advance.
> > 
> > > > > > > In the event the President does not himself attend such 
a 
> > 
> > > > meeting he
> > 
> > > > > > > may appoint the Vice-President or some other member of 
> > 
> > the 
> > 
> > > > General
> > 
> > > > > > > Council to preside in his stead.
> > 
> > > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > > On the basis of these Regulations and with the use of 
> > 
> > > internet
> > 
> > > > > > > technology an extended discussion panel can be formed 
to 
> > 
> > > address
> > 
> > > > > > > important critical issues. With making such discussion 
> > 
> > > panel 
> > 
> > > > public
> > 
> > > > > > > the Theosophical Society would show to its members and 
> > 
> > > public in
> > 
> > > > > > > general that it is able to overcome divisions and find 
a 
> > 
> > > common
> > 
> > > > > > > interest according to the philosophy the Society is 
> > 
> > > promoting.
> > 
> > > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > > This is, in my opinion, the only way out from the death 
> > 
> > > alley 
> > 
> > > > we are
> > 
> > > > > > > catched in.
> > 
> > > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > > Warmest regards,
> > 
> > > > > > > Anton
> > 
> > > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > ------------ ---- ---- -
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > ------------ -------- -------- -----
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > 
> > > > >
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > ************ **AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, 
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> > 
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> > 
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> > 
> > > redir=http://searchblog. aol.com/2008/ 11/04/happy- holidays- 
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> > 
> > > > -aol-search/ ?ncid=emlcntusse ar00000001)
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > 
> > > >
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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>  
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>