Theos-Talk Archives (October 2008 Message tt00738)

Dear Ramadoss,

One can not to not agree with most of your points. 

As said, campaign was indecent but both ways. The move of amendments 
was secret but it was made as in previous cases. Some proposed and 
some already accepted changes ruin the subtle balance of the 
Constitution and seriously damage its democratic structure. 

But, playing the game with the privilege that opponent's cards are 
open to me while mine are hidden, and using this privilege to beat 
the opponent to the ground is at least unfair.

If we not accept that we all are moved by good intentions and that 
troubles are due to our ignorance and self-interest then it is better 
that we close the barrack and go on Pacific island. 

There can not be winner in such polarization, we are all losing, 
above all the Theosophical Society. 

Best regards,
Anton


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR <mkr777@...> wrote:
>
> Couple of points. During John Coats election, it was three way -- 
three well
> known candidates. I have no problem in the candidates beating their 
own
> drums as much as they want to. It is their birthright.
> 
> The basic problem in the current election was the attempt to defeat 
a
> candidate by providing incomplete and inaccurate information and it 
is an
> insult to the intelligence of the ordinary members. In addition, 
the secret
> attempt by a handful of people to change the rules quickly before 
any
> members could find out simply lacks trust in the judgement of the 
members.
> Members should have been consulted.  In addition, they should have 
known
> what they are trying to do was also illegal; disenfranchisement of 
members
> without their consent.
> 
> Any politician or attorney who knows something about the 
corporate/nonprofit
> management/legal/political issues would have raised a red flag 
before the
> move was made. Simple reading of the rules using a dictionary and 
trying to
> interpret and modify does not cut it. If it is so simple, the court 
judges
> would all be English majors and the supreme court would be filled 
with
> linguistic professors to interpret the written legal material. 
Someone
> should have thought about these things.
> 
> I feel there is going to be some unintended consequences as a 
result of what
> happened and none of us can foresee what they are. Let us wait and 
see.
> 
> mkr
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 10:24 PM, Anton Rozman 
<anton_rozman@...>wrote:
> 
> >   Hi Eldon,
> >
> > Thank you very much for the article. It was interesting diving 
into
> > the American President's election system. It would be probably 
very
> > interesting to experiment with the idea to have in the TS an
> > electoral college consisting out of individual lodges (as 
fundamental
> > units) as districts.
> >
> > I think that major defect in the American system is that election
> > campaign is governed by money and that an independent candidate 
has
> > no chance against parties' candidates which are supported by big
> > money. So, the great problem is how to give equal chance to all
> > candidates and reduce to the minimum influence of corporate 
financial
> > interests.
> >
> > While in American system the outcome depends of the financial
> > background in the TS it seems that depends of the tradition. 
Namely,
> > in the past it was quite usual to have only one candidate 
running. In
> > instances when we had two candidates, as in last elections, and 
the
> > Society was really confronted with the democratic process and its 
own
> > Rules and Regulations it came to the surface all its incapability 
do
> > decently cope with them.
> >
> > It seems that now all officers would like to let us forget that 
past
> > elections were actually won by "NO THANKS" candidate. There are
> > voices who try to convince us that the TS is in fact democratic
> > organization although its Rules and Regulations are constantly
> > misinterpreted and violated in that or another way. They try to
> > convince us that we have to forget the indecent election process
> > which revealed the actual shameful state of affairs and go back to
> > the business and sweep all under the carpet.
> >
> > Well, probably it will not work that way. We have to change our
> > behavior, we have to collaborate and find solutions for change and
> > stop scapegoating.
> >
> > Warmest regards,
> > Anton
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>, 
MKR
> > <mkr777@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks Eldon.
> > >
> > > It is the timing (soon after election defeat), super secrecy and
> > speed with
> > > which the Quartet wanted to revamp everything is seen as trying
> > pull a fast
> > > one on the members.
> > >
> > > I wish if the whole range of problems were thrown open to member
> > and got the
> > > members behind them would have had a good chance of some reform.
> > Today, in
> > > my opinion, many members have lost their trust in the leaders 
and
> > until that
> > > is rebuilt (which cannot be done overnight), we cannot expect
> > members'
> > > support for any change. This is because of the continuing 
secrecy
> > and non
> > > transparency of the process of the GC makes one wonder what 
else is
> > cooking
> > > behind closed doors.
> > >
> > > mkr
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 10/21/08, Eldon B Tucker <write001@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Some of the ongoing debate about the T.S. election and 
proposals
> > > > subsequently circulating made me think of an article I read in
> > > > DISCOVER MAGAZINE many years ago. It discusses the mathematics
> > behind
> > > > and the reasons for the electoral college in the U.S. 
presidential
> > > > elections. It makes a good case that such a system preserves 
the
> > > > rights of minority groups much better than a direct national
> > election
> > > > would.
> > > >
> > > > There are many copies of the article on the internet. One 
link to
> > it I
> > > > found has some interesting discussion attached. It's worth
> > reading and
> > > > may contribute some ideas to the current discussion.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1234409/posts
> > > >
> > > > -- Eldon
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>