Theos-Talk Archives (October 2008 Message tt00324)

No, it really doesn't. It just gets in the way at all kinds of  levels.   And 
in regard to the nature of the cosmos it really does not  matter.  When the 
Sun goes nova, the just and the unjust will fry  alike.
 
We really need to separate behavior from enlightenment, otherwise we will  
keep tripping over Musashi, who attained enlightenment by the process of  
killing sixty three men in single combat.
 
Chuck the heretic
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 10/13/2008 9:19:01 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
adelasie@sbcglobal.net writes:

 
 
 
So you are saying that things like personal honor just have no place 
in  modern life?

On 13 Oct 2008 at 17:50, _Drpsionic@aol.Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol.com)   
wrote:

> 
> The problem is that things like loyalty, honor,  courage and altruism 
> are
> basic Victorian values that educated  people now, even hearing the 
> words, will
> fall down laughing.  They are precisely the things that stand in the 
> way
> because  they represent ways of dealing with people in a different 
> era. What  we are
> dealing is not a social system but a means of getting to the  root of 
> the
> nature of cosmos itself.
> 
> Chuck  the Heretic
> 
> 
> In a message dated 10/13/2008 10:52:01  A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> _adelasie@sbcglobal.ade_ (mailto:adelasie@sbcglobal.net)   writes:
> 
> I see. Well, maybe we could consider making a  distinction between the
> message and the messenger. Theosophy may have  emerged in this cycle
> in trappings of Victorianism (or the American  version thereof) but in
> previous cycles it had other raiment. However,  the outside
> appearance is not very important compared to the inner  essence. It is
> easy for us to become entangled in the trailing clouds  of whatever
> era we are considering, but when we blow aside some of the  mist, we
> might find some useful concepts, whether we call it  Theosophy,
> Buddhiam, Christianity, Hinduism, or whatever. Things like  loyalty,
> honor, courage, altruism. These essentials are what connect  us, not
> the illusionary differences.
> 
> Adelasie
>  
> On 13 Oct 2008 at 1:25, __Drpsionic@aol._Dr_ (mailto:_Drpsionic@aol.Drp) _ 
(mailto:_Drpsionic@aol.Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol.com) )
>  wrote:
> 
> >
> > I am being deadly serious.
>  >
> > Theosophy was created in the late 19th century and as  such
> > internalized the
> > culture of that time. But the  culture has changed radically. 
> Consider
> > that
>  > when the SD was written, there was no Uncertainty Principal, no
>  > quantum
> > mechanics, no general relativity. They never heard  of the human
> > genome. And the
> > culture was radically  different, in ways that if one of the founders
> > landed
>  > in our time they would not recognize it and they would be shocked
>  > beyond
> > belief.
> >
> > The values that  society holds dear are vastly different. We little
> > use  for
> > the ideals of the Victorians and laugh at their concepts of  purity
> > and honor.
> > The Master KH could call one of  his colleagues, "the sternest of the
> > Khobilligans,  Khobilligans,<WBR>" and not be greeted with laughter
> >  was when
> > someone read it in the Olcott library nearly 20 years  ago. Stern is
> > not a virtue
> > to us, it is an  invitation to get a pie in the face.
> >
> > Yet our  brethren hold onto antiquated notions of society, quote
> >  language
> > that no one can make sense of any more and think that  psuedo-
> sanskrit
> > will
> > impress people. And we  do not have to concern ourselves with the
> > occasional
> >  censorious buffoon who somehow thinks that his objections matter.
>  >
> > We need to get rid of the kindling, the deadwood, the things  that
> > just have
> > not worked. The proper way to look at  the old material is not to 
> just
> > quote
> > it  and expect everyone to assent. It is to look at it and ask, is 
>  this
> > really true, or what was the Master drinking when he came up  with
> > that one?
> >
> > And thus the truth of  the matter is that I really do not care what 
> the
> > Masters  said, or what the SD says in and of itself. Those are just
> > words  and we
> > have gazillions of words to choose from. We need to  question 
> question
> > question and not stop questioning  because some moron is impressed
> > with an imbecile
> >  like Milarepa or thinks that every word from the Mahatmas is a 
>  golden
> > dripping
> > from the nose of God.
>  >
> > And we need most of all to get past this notion that the  internal
> > politics
> > of the TS somehow matters. who  cares who is in charge of mowing the
> > lawn at
> >  Adyar?
> >
> > Can I go too far? Not in this  lifetime.
> >
> > Chuck, who is very much the  Heretic
> >
> > In a message dated 10/12/2008 7:44:46 P.M.  Central Daylight Time,
> > __adelasie@sbcglobal_ade_ (mailto:_adelasie@sbcglobal.ade) _  
(mailto:_adelasie@sbcglobal.ade_ (mailto:adelasie@sbcglobal.net) )  writes:
> >
> > ROFL...or... ROFL...or R<WBR>could it  be u r bein
> >
> > On 12 Oct 2008 at 11:47,  __Drpsionic@ On 12 Oc
> (mailto:__Drpsionic@aol._Dr_ (mailto:_Drpsionic@aol.Drp) ) _
> >  (mailto:__Drpsionic@aol._Dr_ (mailto:_Drpsionic@aol.Drp) _ 
(mailto:_Drpsionic@aol.Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol.com) ) )
> >  wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Actually I love it  when people get steamed at my ideas. It is sort
> > of
> >  > like
> > > they suddenly get "kick me" signs taped to their  backs.
> > >
> > > The problem with some folks is that  they think that being a
> > > Theosophist is
> > >  like being some damned fool Baptist, and everyone sits around
> >  > agreeing with
> > > everything. No no no. You have to  question everything, including
> > your
> > > fundamental  premises. The Masters are not to be worshipped, their
> > > words  are not
> > > holy writ. The mere fact that the Chohan said  something does not
> > make
> > > it true.
> >  > It only means that he was in a rotten mood when he wrote it.
> >  >
> > > There are times that if I had my way I would burn all  those musty
> > old
> > > books
> > > because  there are times when it seems that would be the only way 
> to
>  > > get light
> > > out of them.
> > >
>  > > In any event, I will continue to follow my old philosophy of
>  > > rhetoric, which
> > > says that if someone says you have  gone too far, you have not yet
> > > gone far
> > >  enough.
> > >
> > > Chuck the Heretic
> >  >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 10/12/2008 9:33:04  A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> > > __mkr777@gmail. __mkr777@gmail.__mkr777@gmail._mk_ 
(mailto:_mkr777@gmail.mkr) ) _
>  (mailto:__mkr777@gmail._mk_ (mailto:_mkr777@gmail.mkr) _ 
(mailto:_mkr777@gmail.mkr_ (mailto:mkr777@gmail.com) ) ) writes:
>  > >
> > > Welcome to the group. I am not the moderator  either.
> > >
> > > This group has been around for  more than a decade and it takes 
> time
> > > for
>  > > newbees to settle down here. From time to time you will find  gems
> > > here that
> > > you cannot find anywhere  else. Patience will pay heavy rewards in
> > the
> > >  long
> > > run.
> > >
> > > mkr
>  > >
> > > On 10/12/08, alex  <_alexmorgan777@_alexmorgan7
> > > (mailto:_alexmorgan  7@alexmorgan7_
> > (mailto:_alexmorgan (mailto:_alexmor
>  (mailto:_alexmorgan777@alexmorgan7_ (mailto:alexmorgan777@hotmail.com) )  
) )
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Is  this funny for everyone here?
> > > > I'm not sure why the  moderator is passively ok with this and 
> even
> > > >  allows you to showoff your website. Is he still alive? I don't
> >  know
> > > > about others but I'm starting to get tired of  deleting your
> > messages
> > > > from my  inbox.
> > > > This crap is not Theosophy, this is just bored  goofing around 
> that
> > > > spoils things for others,  and makes the new comer puke on the
> > whole
> > > >  group and leave.
> > > > The Unity of Mind is lacking in here  already, I don't think we
> > need
> > > > to see this  nonsense anymore.
> > > >
> > > > Chuck, why  don't you try to be like Milarepa and turn things
> > around,
>  > > > become the first Enlightened man in modern times to abandon  the
> > path
> > > > of sorcery and black  magic?
> > > > Think about it Chuck, you will increase the  membership, peoples
> > > > participation and get all our votes  if you choose to run and
> > > > promulgate the DOCTRINE of the  Buddhas!
> > > > What do you think? :)
> > >  >
> > > > Alex
> > > >
> > > >  --- In _theos-talk@ --- In _t --- In _theo
> > >  __talk@yahoogroups.  __talk@y__talk@yahoogroups._ta_ 
(mailto:_talk@yahoogroups.tal) )  _
> (mailto:__talk@yahoogroups._ta_ (mailto:_talk@yahoogroups.tal) _  
(mailto:_talk@yahoogroups.tal_ (mailto:talk@yahoogroups.com) ) )  )
> > > <theos-talk%theos-talk%<WBthe>,
>  > > > Drpsionic@.. Drpsionic@.
> > > > >
>  > > > > Ok, the very first thing we have to do is get rid of  those
> > > obsolete
> > > > ideas of
> >  > > > purity, self-denial, charity, etc and concentrate on  finding
> > what
> > > > really is
> > >  > > going on.
> > > > >
> > > > >  Chuck the heretic
> > > > >
> > > >  >
> > > > > In a message dated 10/11/2008 4:06:19 P.M.  Central Daylight
> > Time,
> > > > >  danielhcaldwell@ danielhcal
> > > > >
> > > >  >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >  > > "For our doctrines to practically react on the so called  moral
> > > code
> > > > > or the ideas of  truthfulness, purity, self-denial, charity,
> > etc.,
> >  > > we
> > > > > have to preach and popularise a  knowledge of theosophy."
> > > > >
> > > >  > Quoted from a letter from the Chohan
> > > > > _____http://www.theosociht_ (http://www.theosocih_/)  
(_http://www.theosociht_ (http://www.theosoci_/) )
> (__http://www.theosociht_ (http://www.theosocih_/)  (_http://www.theosocih_ 
(http://www.theosoci/) ) )
> > ___http://www.http:http://www._ (http://www.http:http://www.)  http_  
> (_http://www.http:http://www.http_ (http://www.http:http://wwwhttp:) )
>  //wwhtt_ (__http://www.http:http://www._ (http://www.http:http://www_)  
(_http://www.http:http://www_ (http://www.http://wwwhttp:) )
>  > //__wwhttp://___ (wwhttp://__/)  (_wwhttp://_/_ (wwhttp://_/) ) )
> > >  (___http://www.theosociht_ (http://www.theosocih_/)  
(_http://www.theosociht_ (http://www.theosoci_/) ) 
> (__http://www.theosociht_ (http://www.theosocih_/) 
> (_http://www.theosocih_ (http://www.theosoci/) ) )
> > ___http://www.theoshtthttp://www._ (http://www.theoshtthttp://www.)   _ 
(_http://www.theoshtthttp://www._ (http://www.theoshtthttp://www.) )
>  __http://___ (http://__/)  (_http://_/_ (http://_/) )
> > (__http://www.theoshtt<WBR>http:/_ (http://www.theoshtthttp://www.)   _ 
(_http://www.theoshtthttp://www._ (http://www.theoshttp://wwhttp:) )
>  //www._) )
> > > > > (____http://www.theosociht_ (http://www.theosocih_/)  
(_http://www.theosociht_ (http://www.theosoci_/) )
> (__http://www.theosociht_ (http://www.theosocih_/)  (_http://www.theosocih_ 
(http://www.theosoci/) ) )
> > ___http://www.theoshtthttp://www._ (http://www.theoshtthttp://www.)   _ 
(_http://www.theoshtthttp://www._ (http://www.theoshtthttp://www.) )
>  __http://___ (http://__/)  (_http://_/_ (http://_/) )
> > (__http://www.theoshtthttp://www._ (http://www.theoshtthttp://www.)   _ 
(_http://www.theoshtthttp://www._ (http://www.theoshttp://wwhttp:) )
>  //www._)
> > > (___http://www.theosociht_ (http://www.theosocih_/)  
(_http://www.theosociht_ (http://www.theosoci_/) ) 
> (__http://www.theosociht_ (http://www.theosocih_/) 
> (_http://www.theosocih_ (http://www.theosoci/) ) )  ety.org/pasadena/
> > ety.or
> > ety.or
> > >  > >
> > > > > So exactly what do we preach and  popularise?
> > > > >
> > > > > Are there  certain teachings that constitute this "theosophy"?
> > And
>  > > > if
> > > > > so, what are these  teachings?
> > > > >
> > > > > And where  do we find these teachings?
> > > > >
> > > >  > And how do we learn about them and study them so that in turn 
>  we
> > > > > can "preach and popularise" them?
> >  > > >
> > > > > And who is "we"? The leaders of the  TS? Elected officials of 
> the
> > > > > TS? Any  member of the TS?
> > > > >
> > > > > And  remember there is more than one TS or theosophical
> > >  organization
> > > > > or association.
> > >  > >
> > > > > Can non-members preach and popularise  this theosophy?
> > > > >
> > > > > And in  this same letter, the Chohan tells us:
> > > > >
>  > > > > ------------ ---- ---- ---- ----
> > > >  > The doctrine we promulgate being the only true one, must, --
> >  > > > supported by such evidence as we are preparing to give  become
> > > > > ultimately triumphant as every other truth.  Yet it is 
> absolutely
> > > > > necessary to  inculcate it gradually enforcing its theories,
> > > > >  unimpeachable facts for those who know, with direct inferences
> >  > > > deducted from and corroborated by the evidence furnished  by
> > modern
> > > > > exact science....  Theos-sophia, Divine Wisdom...is a synonym 
> of
> > > >  > truth....
> > > > > ------------ ---- ---- ----  ----
> > > > >
> > > > > This is quite a  CLAIM.
> > > > >
> > > > > "The doctrine  we promulgate being the only true one...."
> > > > >
>  > > > > So what is this DOCTRINE that is "the ONLY true one" and  where
> > can
> > > > we
> > > > >  find an exposition of this teaching?
> > > > >
> >  > > > Is it to be found in THE SECRET DOCTRINE written by  H.P.
> > > Blavatsky?
> > > > >
> >  > > > Or can it be found in C.W. Leadbeater's and Annie Besant's  
> "Man,
> > > > > Whence, How, and Whither: A Record  of Clairvoyant 
> Investigation"
> > > > >
>  > > > > Or in a book by Alice Bailey? or....in a book by  Elizabeth
> > Claire
> > > > > Prophet?
>  > > > >
> > > > > If "we" are to popularise a  knowledge of Theosophy, what 
> exactly
> > > do
>  > > > > we popularise?
> > > > >
> >  > > > Is reincarnation part of this DOCTRINE?
> > > >  >
> > > > > What if I start popularising the teaching of  reincarnation 
> that
> > > > > includes the provision  that humans can sometimes be reborn as
> > > > >  animals?
> > > > >
> > > > > Am I  faithfully transmitting the DOCTRINE?
> > > > >
> >  > > > And who is to say that I am faithfully or not transmitting  the
> > > > > DOCTRINE?
> > > > >
>  > > > > In other words, who is to say what the REAL, TRUE  "doctrine" 
> is?
> > > > >
> > > >  > The objects of the TS doesn't tell us what the DOCTRINE is all
>  > > > about,
> > > > > so where and how does one  [an inquirer, a newcomer] discover
> > what
> > > >  the
> > > > > DOCTRINE is that the Chohan seems to hold in  SUCH high regard?
> > > > >
> > > > >  Daniel
> > > > > _____http://hpb.cc_htt_ (http://hpb.cc_ht_/)  (_http://hpb.cc_htt_ 
(http://hpb.cc_h_/) )  (__http://hpb.cc_htt_ (http://hpb.cc_ht_/) 
> (_http://hpb.cc_ht_ (http://hpb.cc__/) ) )  (___http://hpb.cc_htt_ 
(http://hpb.cc_ht_/)  (_http://hpb.cc_htt_ (http://hpb.cc_h_/) )
> > (__http://hpb.cc_ht_ (http://hpb.cc_h_/)  (_http://hpb.cc_h_ 
(http://hpb.cc_/) ) ) )  (____http://hpb.cc/htt_ (http://hpb.cc/ht_) 
> (_http://hpb.cc/ht_ (http://hpb.cc/h_) ) (__http://hpb.cc/ht_ 
(http://hpb.cc/h_)  (_http://hpb.cc/h_ (http://hpb.cc/_) )  )
> > > (___http://hpb.cc/ht_ (http://hpb.cc/h_)  (_http://hpb.cc/h_ 
(http://hpb.cc/_) ) (__http://hpb.cc/h_ (http://hpb.cc/_) 
> (_http://hpb.cc/_ (http://hpb.cc/) ) ) ) )
>  > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >  >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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