Theos-Talk Archives (October 2008 Message tt00236)

Brian,

>>>The very idea of her being 
linked to anything like Facism or the Nazi party is absurd at best.<<<

Your right! adolf hitler was only 2 years and 20 days old the day H.P.B. died.

He was born april 20th, 1889 and died april 30 1945.

Regards,
Nous Laos Hikano,
John



------------ Original message -------------- 
From: "B" <byondthis@yahoo.com> 

HPB is probably the least understood Occultist, at least within the 
time period of the existance of America. The very idea of her being 
linked to anything like Facism or the Nazi party is absurd at best. A 
Buddhist/Budhist Nazi?????

She CLEARLY, states,that new sub races, come FROM mixing of the 
races!??!?! I think she worded it like this -'No new people, have 
evercome from anything except mixing with other races" paraphrased (I 
will look for the exact quote in SD) Obviously this clear statement, 
has been looked over by those seeking to "find" something that isnt 
there.

And what now for the TS? Very little I say. When something corrupts 
from the inside out, its time to turn it over, and start fresh (if 
you dont belive me ask the Iching #18 Corruption- "The time of Decay 
and Poison") (also sounds similar to the Kali Yuga). Most TS groups, 
are simply another Exoteric social club, that is simply an anoyance 
to any serious student of the teachings of HPB and the Ancient 
Wisdom. Im not even sure if there are any authentic Occult/Esoteric 
groups affiliated with any TS. Though if someone, can point me 
twords, what they feel may represent this, in modern times ,I will 
keep an open mind and follow up with my own research.

So many false prophets!! So how can one sift through the fecal matter 
and find the true teachings??? Very very simply. The "Budhi" will not 
mislead you, if you are open to it (no mental speculation required) 
and Karmaticaly able to recieve the guidance.

Esoteric "writings" are actualy only Esoteric, under certain 
conditions. If those conditions are not met (By the Reader), than no 
matter WHAT the subject matter is, one is only within the Exoteric. 
The TRUE Esoteric System, starts with a "process". That process is 
the Seed and the Root of the entire system. This "Process", is the 
practical methods of True Occultism and Spiritual development. The 
Process is what seperates a "Spiritual system of Development" from 
a "Dogmatic Religion".

This Process refines Man, from a piece of coal into a diamond (which 
the process, is a faster version of what is occuring naturaly, as man 
evolves physicaly, psychical, and spritualy). This Process works with 
all the various vehicles of "man", and Consciousnes. This process is 
the entire point, of the Esoteric Tradition. Call it Yoga, Alchemy, 
Tantra,Enlightenment, Regeneration, Resurection, "To Die So you can 
live", or whatever you like. IT still amounts to the same thing. 
Without this process, there is ONLY Exoteric, no matter WHAT the 
subject matter is. And where there is Exoteric, there is relative 
truth, opinion, illusion and duality.The differance between them 
(Exoteric and Esoteric) are like the differance between being the 
Subject looking at the object, to the Subject "being" the Object.

A theosophist, who knows the Planet Chains, about the Bodies of Man, 
about whatever, but who hasnt done ANY practical work, is in the same 
exact position, as any other Exoteric Religious Dogma slave and will 
experiance the exact same "Death Process". The normal death process.

If one isnt Realised, one can only take things on Faith. And only 
Exoteric religion requires Faith. "I have faith the Planet chains 
exist because HPB was right about other stuff" - OK EXOTERIC. FAITH. 
NOT ESOTERIC. If you havnt experianced and verified for yourself, 
that the planet chains exist, than it isnt Esoteric knowledge for 
you, irregardless of what illusion you might be under!

If I mentor someone, I clearly state, "Ok this I have verified, I can 
attest to it being truth beyond relative truth", or, other things, I 
have to clairify, "Im not at that level, and I havnt experianced 
that, so take the knowledge as a possible sign post, for the future".

Even back in the Old TS, many of the individuals were not from 
a "realised" perspective. Hence the Egos were insane, and hence after 
HPBs passing, everything went extremly.."Wacky". Sinnet makes me 
whence, with his bravado and thinking, HPB was his equal, and that he 
was taught many things she wasnt aware of, and this and that. 

Well the Mahatmas clearly stated, NO LETTER, was sent to anyone, that 
HPB didnt recieve a copy of. Of cource no one back than thought we 
would now have access to most of the writings. So we can see, Sinnets 
journey into Theosopy, was an exoteric journey lacking Realisation 
(The process)which is why the Masters were always having "fun with 
him" - poking at western mentality. Many of the early English, and 
American students couldnt even follow the most basic of rules for 
serious LAY Chelaship. Not even coming close to an Exoteric Buddhist 
lifestyle, let alone an Esoteric Buddhist lifestyle and 
practise.Obiviously I dont have to even go into Bailybeater era, as 
the true is very apparent.

But once one is working from the perspective of "The Process', and 
opinion drops away, one than is in a position, to allow their Budhi 
to lead them to the correct knowledge. Some may not believe what I am 
saying. That is fine. But Buddha S. taught "Dont believe me. I might 
be fooling you. Just try it, and either it will prove itself to you 
or it wont" (paraphrased). No belief or faith required. 

The more one can stay stablised within that 'State' of being open to 
the Budhi, the more realised one becomes, and the more onces 
consciousness is purified and "raised". Someone like me, bounces in 
and out and thats mainly my fault for being a poor student. I mental 
speculate to much, and that makes it harder to hear.

But my Budhi has lead me since I was 7. From within Roman Catholic 
bonage, my intuition lead me to Zen and Mikkyo. I survied the 
persecution for almost 8 years, by the teachers and the students (Who 
were encouraged to be cruel twords me, in hopes they could break me). 
I was told daily I was "Evil', and "A Satan" etc. At the age of 14 
(8th Grade) I refused to take the entrace exam for the Christian high 
school. This was the first time in the history of the school, that 
occured. They refused to put my picture up on the wall for 
graduating, so they could forget my disrespect. 

How could a 7-14 year old truly understand that what he was being 
taught was a lie? A corruption? How could a 7-14 year not cave in to 
parental, teacher, and child external preasure? That were physical 
and psychological? It was my Budhi, that protected me, and pushed 
me twords what I need to know, and what I needed to study and 
EXPERIANCE.HPB taught we are only allowed our allotment of "The 
teachings", based on our Karma.This is also a common teaching in 
Vaisnavaism and Vendanta. So nothing, that anyone could do, could 
interfere with my Karma and the allotment. But no true allotment can 
be accessed until one begins "The Process" of dieing to this world.

I hope all followers of the Esoteric Tradition, "have the ears to 
hear" what I am saying. I leave you with this quote- 

"The above is given as an explanation of the text, which records the 
words of the Brahmana, who narates how he reached the ultimate Wisdom 
of Yogism, and had reached all Knowledge in this wise. Saying that he 
had "perceived by means of the Self the seat abiding in the Self", 
where dwells Brahman free from all"" - SD 2:568

Sincerely

B(rian).S (born May the 8th, 1973)

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@...> wrote:
>
> That is interesting piece of information regarding 
Besant/Mussolini - all the doco's refer to Hitler embracing the 
doctrines of HPB. Not twenty years in the grave and she is still 
taking the flack for Besant/Leadbeater
> 
> Cass
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "Drpsionic@..." <Drpsionic@...>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, 9 October, 2008 3:54:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World The Theosophical Society versus the 
Theosophical Cause???
> 
> 
> Leadbeater is, of course, best considered as comic relief. But as 
no one is 
> in a position to know ultimate truth the search must be open ended.
> 
> What I find more interesting is studying what it was about 
Leadbeater and 
> Besant's time that made people want to take them seriously. I 
remember the 
> look of absolute horror on the face of one of my fellow 
Theosophists when, many 
> years ago, I said that the whole World Teacher thing was related to 
the 
> Fascist movements of the time, and then I found a bound volume of 
the journal of 
> the Order of the Star in the East and when I opened it at random, 
what should I 
> land on but an article by Mussolini! But then Mrs. Besant loved 
Mussolini 
> and it is no accident that there is a very long, two part article 
praising Il 
> Duce's Italy in The Theosophist of the mid 1920s.
> 
> Now, how does that relate to our present situation? We don't really 
want 
> leaders. We dislike followers and look down upon them. And we 
distrust 
> politics, even politics as impotent and clownish as the internal 
machinations of 
> the inner circle of the Adyar TS. I mean, let us be honest and 
admit that no 
> one is going to be seriously damaged by the way a TS president is 
chosen 
> unless they are an employee of the society. Theosophists do not 
shun, blackmail 
> or attack those they disagree with, at least not normally. (We have 
gotten 
> the occasional nutcase from the ULT who managed to slip his 
keepers, but they 
> don't last very long. Usually they just drown themselves in pseudo-
sanskrit. ) 
> In this we are very much products of our time.
> 
> And Change has become the holy mantra, in the words of one satirist 
joking 
> about Barrack Obama "He'll talk about change 'til your deaf in the 
ear!" But 
> when it comes to what is to be changed, we hear nonsense about 
making the 
> magazine interesting, never mind that our target audience does not 
read 
> magazines any more. We need to find a way not to put them to sleep 
with the videos! 
> (And I can imagine a group of people watching the lecture videos 
posted on 
> Google and betting on which audience members will drop dead before 
the talk is 
> over.)
> 
> And there is the fundamental question of is Theosophy even a cause, 
or 
> merely a method, one method among many. As far as a Theosophical 
Movement, that 
> has not existed since the 1920s. It is foolish even to use the term 
in 
> relation to Theosophy except as it involves the end product of 
eating too many 
> vegetables.
> 
> It is one thing to claim that there is an Ancient Wisdom. It is 
quite 
> another to think that people still write on clay tablets. 
> 
> Chuck the Heretic
> 
> 
> In a message dated 10/8/2008 11:29:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
> silva_cass@yahoo. com writes:
> 
> OK - a nuovo riche theosophist. 
> Truth is truth - it can't be open ended - it is just relative until 
it 
> becomes absolute-but accepting the claims made by Leadbeater is not 
worthy of 
> analytical speculation
> Cass
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "_Drpsionic@aol. Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol. com) " 
<_Drpsionic@aol. Drp_ 
> (mailto:Drpsionic@aol. com) >
> To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogro 
ups.com) 
> Sent: Thursday, 9 October, 2008 3:25:14 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World The Theosophical Society versus the 
Theosophical 
> Cause???
> 
> There is no such thing as a psuedo-theosophist. Theosophy is, in a 
very 
> real sense, open ended as the search for truth and meaning can have 
no one 
> defined course.
> 
> Chuck the heretic
> 
> In a message dated 10/8/2008 6:58:21 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
> silva_cass@yahoo. com writes:
> 
> As far as I am concerned Adyar can sink as deep as Atlantis did - 
it's 
> website is a selling conduit - I would hate to see the American 
societies 
> close as 
> they keep HPB's cause alive by providing free online access to her 
works. 
> What they have to decide is whether or not to be purists or psuedo 
> theosophists
> 
> Cassd
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: danielhcaldwell <_danielhcaldwell@ danielhca_ 
> (mailto:danielhcald (mailto:danielhc a>
> To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos- To: _theos-talk@ 
ya
> Sent: Wednesday, 8 October, 2008 3:03:51 AM
> Subject: Theos-World The Theosophical Society versus the 
Theosophical 
> Cause???
> 
> In August, 1889, H.P. Blavatsky wrote:
> 
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> ...It is pure nonsense to say that "H.P.B. . . . is loyal to the
> Theosophical Society and to Adyar"(!?). H.P.B. is loyal to death to
> the Theosophical CAUSE, and those great Teachers [the Mahatmas] 
whose 
> philosophy can alone bind the whole of Humanity into one 
Brotherhood. 
> Together with Col. Olcott, she is the chief Founder and Builder of 
> the Society which was and is meant to represent that CAUSE; and if 
> she is so loyal to H. S. Olcott, it is not at all because of his 
being
> its "President," but, firstly, because there is no man living who 
has
> worked harder for that Society, or been more devoted to it than the
> Colonel, and, secondly, because she regards him as a loyal friend 
and
> co-worker. Therefore the degree of her sympathies with
> the "Theosophical Society and Adyar" depends upon the degree of the
> loyalty of that Society to the CAUSE. Let it break away from the
> original lines and show disloyalty in its policy to the CAUSE and 
the
> original programme of the Society, and H.P.B., calling the T. S.
> disloyal, will shake it off like dust from her feet.
> 
> And what does "loyalty to Adyar" mean, in the name of all
> wonders? What is Adyar, apart from that CAUSE and the two (not one
> Founder, if you please) who represent it? Why not loyal to the
> compound or the bath-room of Adyar? Adyar is the present 
Headquarters
> of the Society, because these "Headquarters are wherever the
> President is," as stated in the rules. To be logical, the Fellows of
> the T. S. had to be loyal to Japan while Col. Olcott was there, and
> to London during his presence here. There is no longer a "Parent
> Society"; it is abolished and replaced by an aggregate body of
> Theosophical Societies, all autonomous, as are the States of 
America,
> and all under one Head President, who, together with H. P. 
Blavatsky,
> will champion the CAUSE against the whole world. Such is the real
> state of things....
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ____
> Quoted from:
> __http://theosophytru _ (http://theosophytru /) _ 
(_http://theosophytru _ 
> (http://theosophytru /) /) st.org/tlodocs/ 
> hpb/PuzzleFromAd yar.htm
> 
> Daniel
> __http://hpb.cc_ _ (http://hpb.cc_ /) (_http://hpb.cc/ _ 
(http://hpb.cc/) ) 
> 
> Make the switch to the world&#39;s best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! 
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