Theos-Talk Archives (September 2008 Message tt00007)

"Believing that you are so smart, and understand it all condemns you to
ignore your ignorance--- this is the meaning of the fall".

This is exactly what I meant with:
 'You feed us and You teach us,
 Your Virtues make us bold".
However the meaning of the fall has all to do with believing we are seperate beings, which we of course are not, since we all descent from the Oneness. Ignorance can be described as not understanding how to focus on our origine. By interacting and intermediating with eachother we may find our mutual knowledge to be of great help. Sharing this with others is true compassion. So it is not the books which give us knowledge, but the people reading them...


--- On Wed, 9/3/08, butchie122 <brianparry@ymail.com> wrote:

From: butchie122 <brianparry@ymail.com>
Subject: Theos-World Re: Introduction & The Voice of the Silence
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, September 3, 2008, 2:46 AM







Thanks Bruce & Katinka,

I would also thank Martin if I could figure out what he means in this
ocntext; - anyway.

My experience in small group member discussion is that often a new
member will ask a question that causes older members who actually listen
to rethink or perhaps review their previous understanding.

What I am trying to do is to actually use the first 100 verses (the
fragment titled 'The Voice of the Silence' as the step by step guide to
daily meditation. In other words not trying to analyse the meaning in a
theoretical manner but to use it to enable me to detect in real time the
illusion making capacity of my own mind, as it arises.

In Lucifer, Oct 1887, p89, HPB wrote

"The first necessity for obtaining self-knowledge is to become
profoundly conscious of ignorance; to feel with every fibre of the heart
that one is ceaselessly self-deceived. "

Angelus Silesius put it well;

"Believing that you are so smart, and understand it all condemns you to
ignore your ignorance--- this is the meaning of the fall".

So it seems to me that I have to begin by a real awareness of what I
don't know so that I am not continually missing the point.

Again thanks for the responses - I am encouraged to continue

Brian
--- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Martin <Mvandertak@ ...> wrote:
>
>
> Oh Adon Ai, Master of the world,
> Master of me and the brethren:
> I do not beg, I do not ask,
> I follow Nature in a mask.
>
> You feed us and You teach us,
> Your Virtues make us bold.
> We stand integral in defence of the Grail,
> Comforting those, hit by Evil hail.
>
> We are Your shield, protecting the meek,
> Reflecting the Wish, even from those who freak.
> The Mind in all is just a temporary stage,
> Once left gives birth to a Golden Age.
>
> It is the Age of the Waterbearer at hand,
> The empty Mind to be filled with Sand,
> From the Intuitive Pillars of Love,
> Side by side along the Bridge above.
>
> Do You see the Other side my Lord?
> Do we need a sacred Word?
> It was our Pain that led us here,
> Our souls been tested right severe.
>
> Let me return oh Divine One,
> Take another cross from Your burning Throne.
> This time your Love will give them Thorn,
> Therefore's the reason I again was born...
>
>
> --- On Sun, 8/31/08, Katinka Hesselink mail@... wrote:
>
> From: Katinka Hesselink mail@...
> Subject: Theos-World Re: Introduction & The Voice of the Silence
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> Date: Sunday, August 31, 2008, 10:53 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lovely. Your post is great, and it shows precisely that this forum IS
> (or can be) a great place to go deeply into things.
>
> What I meant was that sometimes the real meaning of things lies on the
> surface, though your post shows that perhaps in this case I was wrong
:)
>
> Katinka
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "robert_b_macd"
> <robert.b.macdonald @...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Brian,
> >
> > I think Katinka is right in the sense that this forum is not the
best
> > for going too deeply into matters. My experience with Study Groups
is
> > that you have to have the right mix of people and they all have to
be
> > focused on the goal of creating, in a sense, one group mind. The
> > Study Group is a tool that incorporates people of various
experience,
> > some with deeper insight and others less so, to practically
> > demonstrate the process of building the antahkarana between the
lower
> > and higher minds. As the group mulls over a particular passage,
> > usually those with less experience will start the journey off as
that
> > is the stage of the journey they are at, the beginning. Others will
> > pick up on what they say rephrasing it so that the matter can
> > successfully be taken to deeper levels. There is a beauty and
harmony
> > to this process when done correctly as the group works to go ever
more
> > deeply into the passage. Often where you end up is quite surprising
> > given the more literal interpretation of a particular passage. This
> > process allows everyone in the group to practically experience the
> > journey of the Spiritually Seeking Mind as it strives to make the
> > Lower Mind more like the Higher Mind -- to build the antahkarana.
> >
> > When we look at The Voice of the Silence, this is also what we are
> > striving for, but the stakes have been raised. We are being warned
> > right off the bat about the lower siddhi. The mind is what it thinks
> > about. If your goal is to reach the voice of the silence, then you
> > had better be ready to maintain your focus. Peering into the Astral,
> > astral traveling and the like are all addictive paths to
destruction.
> > How can they be otherwise? Your focus is to make the Lower one with
> > the Higher and you do this by always taking the next step along the
> > Path. The Paramitas are the keys to taking you safely along the
path,
> > for once you have mastered these, you have mastered Self and made it
> > one with SELF. The higher siddhi are then at your disposal to help
> > you work on behalf of Nature.
> >
> > A good analogy might be that the lower siddhi are like the
> > distractions in a nightclub. A bomb disposal expert working in such
> > an environment has to remain entirely focused on disarming the bomb.
> > If he is distracted by what is going on around him, if he is having
> > the occasional drink as he works, etc. he is going to make a mistake
> > that will blow up himself and the nightclub.
> >
> > Knowing how to exercise the powers of Nature takes a morally
> > incorruptible person, if you are still dealing with the lower
siddhi,
> > you are far from incorruptible.
> >
> > These are some thoughts I might consider when looking at that
passage.
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Katinka Hesselink" <mail@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > I think you are looking too deeply here. She's just saying: be
aware
> > > of the dangers of the lower siddhi (why she uses pali here I can't
> > > fathom) & read the rest of this booklet.
> > >
> > > Katinka Hesselink
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "butchie122" <brianparry@ >
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Greetings, I am a new member of the group who became interested
in
> > > > the site following the recent international election postings -
> some
> > > > of which I thought were hilarious. I am a long time TS member
> of the
> > > > Australian Section & the Melbourne Lodge. With a wide range of
> > > > interest in most matters theosophical I have a particular
> interest on
> > > > the first two of the Stanzas of Dzyan, advaita vedanta & the
> Voice of
> > > > the Silence.
> > > >
> > > > I would be interested to see a discussion from anyone who
actually
> > > > does what HPB said we should do with The Voice of The
> Silence,ie, use
> > > > it daily. By way of starting such a discussion we could focus
> on the
> > > > first verse; 'these instructions are for those ignorant of the
> dngers
> > > > of the lower iddhi'.
> > > >
> > > > Most commentators, John Allego being the latest, are careful to
> > > > explain these iddhis & the dangers, but if that is all there is
> to it
> > > > then the rest of the book can be ignored. The focus in the first
> > > > verse is on our ignorance. We can know ABOUT the danger by
> analysis
> > > > but knowing the dangers is quite a different matter. Our daily
> use of
> > > > the book begins with our awareness of our ignorance. In this
> context
> > > > awareness of ignorance is a positive quality. Any comments will
be
> > > > welcome
> > > >
> > >
> >
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