Theos-Talk Archives (August 2008 Message tt00070)

Pedro,

Good to know that you are still reading postings on Theos-Talk!

There are a number of your comments and observations that I would 
like to respond to.  To do justice to the issues you raise I would 
have to write at least several pages on each point and unfortunately, 
I do not have time today or in the immediate future to spend the 
hours it would take to adequately comment on what you have said.

But I will take a "jab" at addressing one point in your posting.

You give a quote of which I give only one extract:

"Above all let us remember that in this present life, the HIGH
THEORETICAL QUESTIONS of Personal, Impersonal, and No-God, are of less
concern to us than OUR OWN EVERYDAY LIFE ABOUT THE RIGHT CONDUCT of
which no similar difficulties exist."  Caps added.

The writer may be trying to get several points across.  Maybe not.

But I will focus on a point that comes to my mind upon reading this 
statement.

I can understand quite well the view that concerning such THEORETICAL 
QUESTIONS the average person is simply not in a good position to know 
the real truth of whether "God" is personal or impersonal or perhaps 
whether there is any kind of God??period.

Yes, such issues can and indeed may take our focus off EVERYDAY LIFE 
and actually living life.

For example, I have a friend whom I have known for 26 years as of 
2008.  All this time his basic view has been that of a materialist 
and atheist.  He is totally convinced that there is ONLY a physical 
world.  Humans do not have some sort of soul or spirit that is non-
physical or superphysical or however one might word it.  He tells me 
that each person is simply a biological entity who is born and when 
that physical entity dies there is no survival of personality or of 
consciousness or of soul.  When the physical body and brain dies, 
whatever we consider to be our personality, our consciousness dies 
(ceases to exist) just as the physical body just dies and returns one 
way or the other to the environment from which it came.  

He doesn't believe in any kind of God whether it is personal or 
impersonal or however you might describe it.  He thinks what HPB 
writes about the Absolute is just a bunch of mumbo-jumbo. --- mere 
words.  But all theologians of ALL religions and cults write just 
mumbo-jumbo, he would add!

Now my friend is a nice guy, friendly, sociable.  He loves his wife, 
his son.  He's kindhearted, a giving person.  He tries to be honest, 
etc. etc.  He's doesn't claim to be perfect or a saint.  He is just a 
good guy trying to live EVERY MINUTE OF HIS LIFE.  

He simply doesn't believe that all these "THEORETICAL QUESTIONS" 
of "god", life after death , Masters, auras, the paranormal in 
general, even religion in general, really mean anything and in fact 
from his perspective none of it is REAL or TRUE.  Empty beliefs.

Now I haven't asked him about this today but I believe he probably 
would say yes the focus should be on:

OUR OWN EVERYDAY LIFE and RIGHT CONDUCT.

My friend I think tries to live everyday life to the fullest and he 
certainly tries to follow the path of RIGHT CONDUCT.  

So I ask you:  what is there found in the writings of either C.W. 
Leadbeater or in the writings of H.P. Blavatsky which doesn't go in 
the category of THEORETICAL QUESTIONS??????  Yes, they may teach some 
ethical precepts. But other than that, what is not in the realm of 
the debatable, in the category of theoretical questions?

I dare say that there is NOT one theosophical or occult teachings in 
either Leadbeater or Blavatsky's writings that is not debateable.  I 
would think that there are a wide variety of views on any of these 
Theosophical teachings.  And I'm not just talking about the "views" 
of the limited audience of Theosophical students but the much much 
wider audience of what we might call the "public marketplace of 
ideas" that is out there on the world stage.

What I'm attempting to say is:

what is not a THEORETICAL QUESTION concerning any of these 
Theosophical teachings?

Does it really matter whether one believes in the Masters or in life 
after death  or in planes or ?? ???

To make it more personable, let us suppose that you Pedro discovered 
tomorrow that all your views and beliefs about reality were just 
wrong and false.  

Would that really change how you LIVE THIS life?  Would you become a 
different person or act somehow differently if all your beliefs were 
total nonsense?

Would you be less kind or generous or giving towards your family, 
your friends, your community, etc.?

I'm not trying to put you on the spot but I am in effect asking every 
reader of this posting (all 4 of them!) to ask yourself these 
questions?. at least in the privacy of your own thoughts??

Take another example?..

My mother who recently died lived a long life.  She actually lived 
more than twice as long as my older sister.

Now what did my mother believe about the ultimate meaning and purpose 
of life?

Well I will say she believed in what I would call a version 
of "orthodox Christianity".

That was her belief system and whatever she believed she was a 
wonderful loving person.  Sorry.  I'm prejudiced.

Now over the years it is true that I sometimes talked to her about 
Blavatsky and Theosophy but never in any depth at all.  She only knew 
I was intrigued with that strange Russian lady!!

I remember just a few months before she died, when I was visiting her 
in an adult care home, she all of a sudden asked me:  "What do you 
think happens after death?"  "What do you think happened to my sister 
who had already died?"

Well, I was sorta taken aback by these questions.  Paused and 
wondered to myself what I should say.  I finally said something 
like:  "Well, mother, what do you think happens?"

I have no idea to this very day what I should have said to her.

Reflecting upon this since then, I realized that we (or at least I) 
may really KNOW next to nothing about any of these THEORETICAL 
QUESTIONS.  We have beliefs, sometimes strong beliefs, maybe well 
thought out "answers," but how many of us really KNOW and does it 
really matter what we believe in such matters and if it does matter, 
how??  why??

Take another example from my own life.

I have a friend who is a mystic and once he was in Eckankar. He  
would get out of his body and see the various Eck Masters, go to the 
various Eck temples on the inner planes, and would even see while 
wide awake the Eck Master Rebazar Tarz in his own living room!

Pretty real and vivid experiences yet he no longer believes those 
experiences about the Eck Masters were really real --- having read, 
for example, David Lane's critical book on Eckankar.

See the online edition of Lane's book at:

http://www.geocities.com/eckcult/

To this day my friend does NOT deny that he had these very "real" 
experiences even while wide awake but his interpretation of some of 
them is quite different than what it was back then!!!!!

So when people have experiences with the dead or near death 
experiences or out of body experiences, encounters with Masters or 
angels, or WITH GOD, etc. no doubt they probably have such 
experiences but how do you explain the experience? What really is 
going on in each of these experiences?

Aren't we once again confronted here with those THEORETICAL QUESTIONS 
from the quote you gave?

Now my mystic friend is still convinced that there are dimensions 
beyond the physical, that our "consciousness" survives the death of 
the physical body, based primarily upon what he has experienced 
when "out of the body", etc.

But he is not so sure that those Eckankar Masters really exist!!

And my other friend, the highly skeptical materialist and atheist, 
thinks my mystic friend is simply a victim of hallucinations 
generated in the brain!

Again we come up against THEORETICAL QUESTIONS.

But both of them are good people, kind hearted, etc. etc.  They try 
to help other people, etc. etc.

So concerning OUR OWN EVERYDAY LIFE and even when we consider RIGHT 
CONDUCT (whatever that may be referring to), does it really matter 
what they or we believe or disbelieve or think they or we know?

I have pondered a great deal about this.

But to end this rather long rambling posting, I will mention that I 
have another friend who has no interest whatsoever in believing or 
disbelieving any of this stuff we have been discussing.  And he is 
happy, etc.etc.  Also a nice guy but just has no interest in anything 
mystical or paranormal or religious.  But he also would at the same 
time have no interest either in embracing materialism or atheism like 
my one friend does.  This third friend is interested in sports, 
movies, rock music, etc. and is totally UNAWARE that there are 
THEORETICAL QUESTIONS!!!!  He accepts life the way it is and lives it 
to his fullest ---as far as I can tell!  Again he is kind, loves 
animals, is good to his family and friends, helps in the community, 
has helped the homeless, gives to the community food bank, etc..  

So in the end --- does it really matter what beliefs or disbeliefs we 
have about life, death, etc.?  Cannot all of "this" be relegated to 
the realm of THEORETICAL QUESTIONS???

Food for thought?.

Daniel
http://hpb.cc