Theos-Talk Archives (July 2008 Message tt00357)

Masturbation, In Psychology is nothing at all and is considered harmless.

I have a BA in Psychology and am a Psychiatric Nurse.  

With sum total of this education I say, that Masturbation is nothing at all and has no meaning, is not a sign of mental illness.

Of course, Masturbation as defined, means  by one self and no other person is involved.

Hence it is not a social issue, unless one is masturbating out in public some where.

Psychology, as a science is supposed to be value and morals free.
Psychology I learned in California is most certainly Not Christian or any religion.


There is not religion in any psychology course I took here in california.

Masturbation may  be a issue to religious people, like Christians or perhaps Jew, but as Psychology is religion free, and most certainly Christian free, it is nothing at all.

Even homosexuality is now considered "normal" by American Psychologists and Psychiatrists.   See DSM 4, which is the labeling book used by these two professions. 


As an after thought, Why would I, as a theosophist case one  wit what the christian moral code is.  I am not a christian. 

Henry B. Ellak  




--- On Thu, 7/24/08, Cass Silva <silva_cass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Cass Silva <silva_cass@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Cheers ! Theosophical Society succeeded in attaining it's object
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, July 24, 2008, 8:16 PM
> Masturbation in christianity is regarded as an abomination
> isn't it.  I doubt very much if masturbation would
> occur without thinking of someone or something else?  What
> do you mean that we are all sexless inside?
> Cass
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Martin <Mvandertak@yahoo.com>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, 25 July, 2008 8:59:42 AM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Cheers ! Theosophical Society
> succeeded in attaining it's object
> 
> 
> Well, masturbating without even the slightest thought about
> some1 else but yourself makes people overcome the
> discrimination of the sexes a lot easier since we all are
> sexless inside. In this way we observe our attraction to
> the physical and its cause and effect.
> However Leadbeater was found with boys in his bed and thats
> another story.....
> 
> --- On Thu, 7/24/08, Cass Silva <silva_cass@yahoo.
> com> wrote:
> 
> From: Cass Silva <silva_cass@yahoo. com>
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Cheers ! Theosophical Society
> succeeded in attaining it's object
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> Date: Thursday, July 24, 2008, 4:31 PM
> 
> I wonder if the Liberal Catholic Church has taught or still
> teaches their founders ideas on masturbation? ??
> Cass
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "MarieMAJ41@ aol. com" <MarieMAJ41@ aol.
> com>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> Sent: Thursday, 24 July, 2008 8:15:27 AM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Cheers ! Theosophical Society
> succeeded in attaining it's object
> 
> Hello Morten and M. Sufilight
> 
> My first impression when a so-called Leadbeater paedophilia
> case is brought up, I ask myself why? Why bring this up. We
> weren't even talking about such things when this came
> up. And when this is brought up, no matter what the motive
> of the person raising this issue [again] the waters are
> "muddied" up with this salaciousness. No one
> really knows whether he was indeed a child molester. We
> only know that he taught certain practices in the 18th
> century that were not considered to be normal or proper at
> that time. But I would bet that most [if not all] men,
> though never taught the practice, indulged in masturbation,
> in the 18th, 19th, 20th and now the 21st century .
> 
> Perhaps Leadbeater did not like women, and preferred to
> practice masturbation. I don't know. He liked Annie
> Besant. She liked him. She had been married and had known
> notorious men. So what. Even Blavatsky's reputation has
> been spotted in regard to marriage and sex. So what. These
> are human beings.
> 
> Anyway, I agree that Leadbeater's writings should be
> discussed. The neophyte would find them easily digested and
> assimilated. The theosophical books should be read, which
> will bring up questions. Many questions. 
> 
> But the one question I still have about Leadbeater is: If
> he was so clairvoyant, why did he not foresee how his
> teachings would affect us as seekers and theosophist. HIs
> clairvoyance is the one true thing that was false about
> him. I.M.H.O.
> 
> Marie
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet.
> dk>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> Sent: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 3:01 pm
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Cheers ! Theosophical Society
> succeeded in attaining it's object
> 
> Dear Marie and all
> 
> My views are:
> 
> You asked a few questions. I take it, that you asked me?
> Your questions sound sincere, and that I am happy about.
> 
> I will seek to answer you in all compassionate
> friendliness.
> 
> 1.
> Marie asked in her below email:
> "Why is this always brought up as having any relevancy
> today? "
> 
> I will have to ask: What is "always"?
> The big problem is, that a great number of Seekers are not
> aware of the TRUTH about this issue - sexuality - within
> theosophical teaching and the theosophical history. And
> they are still running around with a blurred impression
> about what kind of Sexual behaviour is the true spiritual
> one. Or whether they better join one of those numerous more
> or less dubious Tantric sects, which are prevalent these
> days. 
> 
> One of the reasons for this blurred view is that various TS
> groups keep silencing any talk what so ever about this very
> central theosophical issue. And we wonder why? - In the old
> days. They were not holding back. So what have changed?
> 
> - A few days back I in fact asked some questions here at
> Theos-talk about how TS and other theosophical groups today
> related to sexual activity, and whether they taught their
> children and grown ups according to CWL's theories or
> according to something else? I felt I had every right to
> ask. This issue is very central to life. And my questions
> they were never as far as I am concerned answered.
> 
> These are just my views.
> 
> 2.
> Marie asked in her below email:
> Why is mud being thrown on theosophy and theosophists.
> 
> First I have to ask what "mud" are we talking
> about?
> From the bottom of my Heart I will admit, that I earliere
> on at this forum a few years back was very tough upon
> CWL's historical merits. I regret that.
> 
> Yet the "mud" you talk about in this thread - are
> so to speak only "mud" if the motive of the
> accused "slinger" of it was or is bad. Now, the
> question is whether the motive of the accused was or is a
> different one, than the one you perceive?
> 
> I feel that I have every right to ask the questions I
> asked.
> 
> I have done my best to be of service.
> - - - - - - - 
> 
> H. P. Blavatsky said:
> '[N]o one can properly or with safety enter on the
> study of Practical Occultism, in the real sense of the
> word, unless he or she is a celibate . . . The Spinal Cord
> puts into connection the Brain and the Generative Organs,
> and this connection is further strengthened by the
> Sympathetic System. The Cord, however, gives an open
> passage, which opens into the important cavities of the
> Brain. Excitement of the Generative Organs sends up
> impulses and subtle essences to the Brain by way of the
> spinal canals. Now the three vital airs are ruled by the
> Will, and Will and Desire are the higher and lower aspects
> of one and the same thing. These airs . . . play in the
> canals, and hence the importance of their absolute purity.
> For if they soil the vital airs energized by the Will,
> disease results at the best, Black Magic at the worst.
> Therefore all sexual intercourse is forbidden to the
> students of Practical Occultism.' (BCW 12:702)
> 
> M. Sufilight
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: MarieMAJ41@aol. com 
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 8:30 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Cheers ! Theosophical Society
> succeeded in attaining it's object
> 
> The first wrong done was Leadbeater's inappropriate
> teachings to young boys. The second wrong that was done is
> that the Leadbeater legacy will never die....even tho he
> and all the boys he ever taught anything to have since died
> as well. Why is this always brought up as having any
> relevancy today? Why is mud being thrown on theosophy and
> theosophists. And why, since he was such a clairvoyant, did
> he and Besant not forsee this? Bah humbug and flapdoodle!
> 
> Marie
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet.
> dk>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> Sent: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 4:37 pm
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Cheers ! Theosophical Society
> succeeded in attaining it's object
> 
> Allright.
> 
> I do not have acces to all files.
> Maybe someone else at this forum will offer me and the
> planet compassionate assistence on this matter, so to help
> Zaitzev.
> 
> I know the following...
> 
> 1.
> A letter from C. W. Leadbeater about - his own readmission.
> http://krotonaarchi ves.com/Charles_ W._Leadbeater_
> Cases_files/ 08.Leadbeater_ letter_TSReview. source_Kunz.
> pdf
> 
> 2. Annie Besant on C. W. Leadbeater's - readmission.
> About how she rightly threw some of the emotional
> anti-Leadbeater theosophist into their rightful place.
> But also how she distorted the truth about the matter!
> 
> "If the Theosophical Society wishes to undo the wrong
> done to him, it is for the Convention of each Section to
> ask me to invite his return, and I will rejoice to do
> so."
> http://krotonaarchi ves.com/Charles_ W._Leadbeater_
> Cases_files/ 08.09.07. Besant_letter_ to_TS.pdf
> 
> Annie Besant clearly wanted to delete the charges from the
> below earlier meeting where Olcott and G.R.S. Mead, A.P.
> Sinnett and others were present. It was charges up to that
> meeting, that made C. W. Leadbeater leave the TS and resign
> before he were thrown out!
> 
> 3. The Report from the meeting in 1906, may 16th in London,
> where C. W. Leadbeater resigned and where he - admitted - to
> have done wrong in not asking the parents before
> "educating" the children. And where he admitted,
> that there "might" have been actual touch
> involved in the teachings! Something he denied in the Court
> case in 1912!
> 
> Here is the report from 16th maj 1906 meeting in London as
> well as various letters from the time.
> http://blavatskyarc hives.com/ besantleadbeater
> listletters. htm
> (Just to let the readers know: I have recently translated
> this Report into Danish. It is now online on the Internet.)
> 
> When the charges were going to be deleted by the Annie
> Besant - the Leader of Esoteric Section and TS as a whole,
> one will clearly see, what was going on.
> 
> 4. A vital paper about what it was all about, when C. W.
> Leadbeater was readmitted.. .
> "The adoption by the Convention of a Resolution asking
> the General Council to restore Mr. Leadbeater to membership
> in the Theosophical Society. No conditions are stated, no
> recantation of his teaching is exacted. The Resolution is
> in these words: "Resolved that the proper officer or
> officers of the T. S. be and the same are hereby requested
> by the American Section T. S. in meeting duly assembled, to
> invite as soon as possible Mr. Charles W. Leadbeater to
> accept again membership in the Theosophical
> Society.""
> http://krotonaarchi ves.com/Charles_ W._Leadbeater_
> Cases_files/ 08.11-09. 01.Theosophic_ Voice_v1. n3.pdf
> 
> This was what it all was about in 1908. There were no
> conditions involved what so ever!
> Nor where there as far as I know any imposed on him later
> after he joined the TS again.
> And I wonder, what the answer was from Annie Besant to this
> protest, which was given in this the last mentioned
> PDF-file. I can only suggest reading the above 70 pages
> carefully.
> 
> You may correct me if I am wrong.
> 
> I am not aware of that C. W. Leadbeater held any office
> before he resigned in 1906. 
> 
> I know, that he lectured and wrote books within TS. But I
> can imagine that he lost any position he might have had in
> the British Section in 1906.
> Yet the readmission set no limits upon his re-entry into
> the TS.
> When he became a member again he was allowed to teach and
> travel around the world. He authored several books. And he
> was the one who was said to have discovered J.
> Krishnamurti. Just imagine how many paedophile victim's
> will feel when they read this and join the TS Adyar. 
> I wonder if you can imagine somethign like that Zaitzev??? 
> 
> He even started to teach children again in Australia. What
> he actually taught them can we only contemplate.
> 
> - - - - - - - 
> I would add and say, that Those who know how it is to be a
> paedophile victim will better understand the issue, than
> most of those calling themselves theosophists do today in
> TS Adyar.
> 
> If i remember correctly C.W. Leadbeater became a member of
> the E.S. somewhere after 1908. And he was working in close
> coorperation with Annie Besant.
> 
> M. Sufilight
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Konstantin Zaitzev 
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 9:29 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Cheers ! Theosophical Society
> succeeded in attaining it's object
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Morten Nymann
> Olesen" 
> <global-theosophy@ ...> wrote:
> 
> > At court C. W. Leadbeater lied about his behavior
> towards 
> 
> You DIDN'T reply to the previous agruments about
> membership.
> Which type of membership do you propose?
> You should be responsible for your own words:
> 
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Morten
> Nymann Olesen" 
> > <global-theosophy@ > wrote:
> 
> > But to me, the greatest failure was allowing C. W.
> Leadbeater to 
> > be a member on the same level again. 
> 
> >> And of which levels members should be. Do you
> propose to have 
> >> members of first and second sort?
> 
> > children six years earlier. The Judge at court did not
> know about
> > it, so he was not jailed. That is telling enough.
> 
> For me, the court verdict is enough, as we are talking
> about the 
> accusation in criminal case. As there is no higher
> authority in such 
> things than the court. Consequently what you say is most
> probably 
> slander. If Leadbeater was alive, he could easily sue you
> and win the 
> case.
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
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> 
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