Theos-Talk Archives (July 2008 Message tt00308)

Dear Zaitzev and all

My views are:

Zaitzev, You asked a question about what happened when C. W. Leadbeater became a member again, and I sought to politely answer it.

Now I perceive, that you try to cook another thread.  Am I right?

Allright I will answer.

1) The books authored by C. W. Leadbeater was and is today being sold by TS Adyar.
If he should have sold them himself after the 1906 resignation or exclusion, it would have been a very different issue would i not?

2)
The actual proof of C. W. Leadbeater's paedophile will only remain in the Akasha.
What we have in the physical is the Report from 16th maj 1906.

Here is the Report in a large PDF-file.
http://blavatskyarchives.com/reportmeetingchargesleadbeaterfull.pdf

In this C. W. Leadbeater admitted the following:

a) He "taught" boys masturbating - what that actually meant was unclear;
"taught" is clearly different from "adviced boys not to think about masturbating".
b) there had been "indicative action" - what that meant was unclear;
c) there had maybe been "touch" involved - what that menat was unclear;
d) it had involved boys, which had not sought his advice about the subject;
e) it had involved pre-puberty boys;
f) C. W. Leadbeater said at the meeting, that he regretted that he did not inform the parents
about what or how he taught the boys.
g) it had according to C. W. Leadbeater involved a num ber of boys (but appearntly leass than 20 all in all)
h) That parts of the Catholic Church and Church of England according to C. W. Leadbeater's own statements used the same method as C. W. Leadbeater towards young boys. The same Church H. P. Blavatsky 15 years earlier named to be directly in opposition to the theosophical teachings! (Try the article "Theosophy or Jesuitism?" by H. P. Blavatsky)
According to Gregory Tillett one such group could have been the one called "Uranian". A Anglo-Catholic, artisitisk, mystical circle, which glorfied boys sexuality.


The Report from this particular meeting was transcribed and approved by G.R.S. Mead and A.M. Glass who both attended the meeting. The Report was subsequently copied several times.

C. W. Leadbeater never officially questioned the truth of the content of this Report. He however a few days later mentioned to Annie Besant in a private letter, that G.R.S. Mead was particularly nasty towards him at the meeting. Lradbeater used the word "nasty". And G.R.S. Mead was H. P. Blavatsky private secretary for her last 3-4 years. It was he who read the paper at her funeral. Later G.R.S. Mead resgined from the TS. Problably because C. W. Leadbeater was allowed inside the TS again.

I will assume like others have done, that anyone, who today in UK and a number of other countries, 'educates' pre-puberty and puberty boys to masturbate and uses 'indicative action' and maybe 'touch' - and who does this without asking the parents of the children could easily expect criminal charges and even a sentence of a severe kind!

All the above, which one can gather from the online report puts the case in a perspective, where C. W. Leadbeater's behaviour no matter how well-intentioned it was - is unacceptableto the theosophical teachings I myself know of. And especially because he taught the boys what he did without informing the parents. Something he himself regretted during the mentioned meeting. And we will also have to take the time of the actitivies into account. The year was only 1906 or earlier.

Anyone can read the report and tell me if they disagree with my conclusions. I might have overlooked something, who knows.

I know the above words sparks serious emotions or reactions among various readers. 

Yet we can as far as I am concerned easily continue to do as H. P. Blavatsky suggested "cull the good we find in each". That is each teaching and book we come across, whether it call itself theosophical or not. Also books by C. W. Leadbeater. Prejudice should not be the hallmark of the theosophical Seekers. - Yet I will think twice even today if I promote his books and sells them - instead of shelving them in the library together with the above mentioned report. 

When we as Seekers start to walk the Path - and start praticing the Occult and deal with clairvoyance, we sometimes fall. And I find that C. W. Leadbeater fell. He tries to get on his feet again, and ended as a bishop wearing the hat and all. Maybe that was the best, maybe not. One can say, that C. W. Leadbeater created a lot of turmoil.


I personally still find the great dislike for everything which have to do with the Catholic Church. To me they are in opposition to what theosphical teachings are seeking to promote.


- - - - - - -
H. P. Blavatsky said: 
"The Society founded to remedy the glaring evils of Christianity, to shun bigotry and intolerance, cant and superstition and to cultivate real universal love extending even to the dumb brute". 
(The Collected Writings of H. P. Blavatsky, vol. 7, p.246)



3)
Zaitzev asked:
"And how it is so that most of your messages here are about 
paedophiles, while there are many other points in CWL's writings which 
can be discussed, like his beliefs in God, which arent quite in line 
with those of Mahatma letters. Maybe you need a help of psychoanalyst?"


You must be joking Zaitvev. It was you who started to ask me about the issue. I started a thread about sexuality as such. And try to read all my messages through the years I have been a member here. I think some the old members will tell you something is wrong with your view. I think I became a member the first time in year 1999-2000 or something like that.

We Theosophists are not using psychologists. But a Master will always come in handy.
Any besides almost any psychologist would easily say that any member at this place need help. 
:-)



M. Sufilight


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Konstantin Zaitzev 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:28 PM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Cheers ! Theosophical Society succeeded in attaining it's object


  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@...>

  > When he became a member again he was allowed to teach and travel
  > around the world. He authored several books.

  No one could prohibit him to write the books. And they meet good 
  demand after 100 years.

  > Just imagine how many paedophile victim's will feel when they read
  > this and join the TS Adyar.

  You haven't presented ANY proofs of Leadbeaters paedophily. At best 
  these documents suggest that he taught boys certain sexual practices. 
  I've heard that psychologists in the west nowdays recommend the same.
  Moreover, not only paedophily but mere homosexuality was considered in 
  victorian England a serious crime. Oscar Wilde suffered for it. So if 
  there were any serious proofs, Leadbeater would be surely imprisoned.

  And how it is so that most of your messages here are about 
  paedophiles, while there are many other points in CWL's writings which 
  can be discussed, like his beliefs in God, which arent quite in line 
  with those of Mahatma letters. Maybe you need a help of psychoanalyst?



   

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