Theos-Talk Archives (June 2008 Message tt00270)

Dear Morten,

interesting questions you have.

Who is able to go to Adyar and look under the coverlets?

Yes, the sexual problem is big.

Even after 20 years study of HPB I sometimes think of women!!

But when I go driving by bus and hear their infantile chat, I am healed and protected by return for a while.

Pederasty in our liberal and open-minded society seems no more big problem.

In one Adyar lodge they praise even raping of women and drugs as good thing, because all comes from god.

Would god not want to have women getting raped or that we don't take drugs, he would not have created them.

That this lecturer has a certain name of a special species may be regarded as a prejudice.

Perhaps the theosophists have a rest of good karma and one day the police comes and closes the Augian-stables.

Frank


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Morten Nymann Olesen 
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World the Martian's sexual problems


My views are:

I have a few question:

1.
So are we to understand it like this, that C. W. Leadbeater's practices and views upon childrens sexual problems still are being followed in various theosophical circles?
Or are there other kind of practises?

Is the sexual problem so big?
H. P. Blavatsky revealed that it was a problem to humanity at one place. So therefore I ask.

2.
I would like to know whether TS Adyar are following the Annie Besant stance - or - the H. S. Olcott stance on C. W. Leadbeaters practises in the below?
Reconciling them seems quite difficult.

_________________________________

### A ###

Annie Besant said in 1908:
"I do not seek to impose this view on the Theosophical Society, for
every member is free to form his own judgment on the sexual problem,
as on any other, and mutual respect, not wild abuse, is the rightful atti
tude of membeis in face of this the most difficult problem which con
fronts humanity I speak on this as Occultist "He that is able to
receive it, let him receive it"
I turn now to the accusations against Mr Leadbeater, reminding
the Society against whom these accusations are leveled. Mr Leadbeater
was a clergyman of the Church of England who in 1883 entered the
Theosophical Society, and in 1884 threw up his career to devote his ripe
manhood to its service. From that date until now he has served it with
unwavering fidelity, through good and evil report, has traveled all over
the world to spread its teaching, has contributed to its literature some
of its most valued volumes, and thousands, both inside and outside
the Society, owe to him the priceless knowledge of theosophy. During
the last two and a half years, under a hurricane of attack as unexampled
as his services, he has remained silent, rather than that the Society
should suffer his reproach Because he loved the Society better than his
own good name, I, at his wish, have also kept silence, But now that I
am appealed to, I will speak, and the more gladly because I also wronged
him, believing that he had admitted certain statements as true. I wrote
in 1906 "On June 7th, I received an account of the acceptance by Mr
Leadbeater before the Committee of the facts alleged in the evidence",
I thus accepted on what I blieved to be his own word, that which, on
the word of others, I had rejected as impossible, and that which I ought
to have continued to reject even coming as from himself, both he and I
have suffered by my blunder, for which I have apologized to him, to an
extent which our unmerciful critics little imagine, but it is over, and
never the shadow of a cloud can come between us again.

The so called trial of Mr Leadbeater was a travesty of justice"

"Mr. Leadbeater resigned two and a half years ago in the vain
attempt to save the Society from this dissension; he does not ask to
return. I am not at liberty to resign, being where I am by my Master's
order, nor am I at liberty to ask him again to take his place within the
Theosophical Society without a vote of the Theosophical Society. If
the Theosophical Society wishes to undo the wrong done to him, it
is for the Convention of each Section to ask me to invite his return,
and I will rejoice to do so. Further, in every way that I can, outside
official membership, I will welcome his co-operation, show him honor,
and stand beside him."

" The vast majority
of you affirmed last year that you regarded me as the President chosen
by the Masters to steer what They have called "our Theosophical ship."
In Their name I call on all, who are loyal to Them and to Their choice,
to work for Them, each in his own way, but in charity with all.

Your faithful servant,
ANNIE BESANT,
President of the Theosophical Society."

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

### B ###

H. S. Olcott and Masters views on C. W. Leadbeaters practices:

"In his Presidential Address at the Adyar Anniversary Meeting, December
29, 1906 (see General Report, p. 3), referring to the Leadbeater case,
and to the specific question as to whether Mr. Leadbeater's teaching was
right or wrong, Col. Olcott stated:

"So when Mahatma M. came to me last Friday night I asked Him the
question, and He replied 'wrong.'"

In a letter to Mr. Leadbeater, dated January 12, 1907, Colonel Olcott
writes on his death-bed:
"Both Mahatma M. and Mahatma K. H. assured me you did well to resign;
that it was right to call a Council to advise upon the matter, and
that I did right in accepting your resignation; but They said we were
wrong in allowing the matter to be made public, for your sake and the
good of the Society. They said you should have stated in your resignation
that you resigned because you had offended the standard of ideals of the
majority of the members of the Society by giving out certain teachings
which were considered objectionable. . . . They have told both Annie
and myself that your teaching young boys to . . . is wrong."

In Colonel Olcott's report of one of the Adyar "interviews," dated
January 11, 1907, in reply to a leading question, the answer reported is:
"No we cannot tell you this, for that concerns himself alone, but it is
different when he teaches things to others that will harm.""
http://krotonaarchives.com/Charles_W._Leadbeater_Cases_files/08.11-09.01.Theosophic_Voice_v1.n3.pdf

- - - - - - -

### C ###

Here is a copy of the report Annie Besant called a travesty with important quotes excerpted:

"REPORT OF MEETING CALLED BY COLONEL OLCOTT TO DISCUSS CERTAIN CHARGES AGAINST C. W. LEADBEATER"
http://blavatskyarchives.com/reportmeetingchargesleadbeaterfull.pdf (I suggest: Print it out and read carefully)

Thomas: - Your reply as to scarcely recollecting suggests that there were so many cases. I would like to know whether in any case - I am not suggesting sodomy - there was definite action.

Leadbeater: - You mean touch? That might have taken place.

"Burnett: - I would like to ask Mr. Leadbeater in view of the fact that he is compos mentis why he did not inform the fathers, before he took any of these boys, what his practices were, that the father might haven had the opportunity of consulting with the mother. It has been said to me by every mother, and mothers not in these charges, that if they had known he had taught these practices he would never have had these boys.

Leadbeater: - I don't understand all this talk about concealment. If asked about the thing I should not have hesitated in speaking.

Burnett: - The talk is because all the world condemns it but Mr. Leadbeater, so far as my knowledge is concerned.

Leadbeater: - Your knowledge does not go very far.

Burnett: - There is no treatise on physiology which supports this. I asked Dr. ... in Chicago, if he had ever seen it advised. He had never advised it and had never knwon it to be adviced. You are flying into the face of the whole world, and why then did you not tell the boys' parents?

Leadbeater: - I wish I had...."

. . . . . .

Leadbeater: - You are probably not aware that one at least of the great Church organisations for youn men deals with the matter in the same manner.
...
Mead & Burnett: - What is its name?
Leadbeater: - I am not free to give this. I heard of the matter first through it.
...
Olcott: - Is it found in the Catholic Church?
Leadbeater: - I expect so.
Olcott: - I know that in Italy Garibaldi found many terrible things.
. . .
Mead: - I understand that it is an organisation pledged to secrecy and I take it that Mr. Leadbeater received his first information from this organisation.
Leadbeater: - I suppose it would have been better if I had not mentioned it.
- - - - - - -

Each of you may draw your own conclusions.
My view is: - C. W. Leadbeater made mistakes. Grave mistakes on a level, which will make his aftermath and the support of his various teachings a hot potato so to speak.

But I would like to know, what the theosophical stance are on sexual teachings and also the stance on the ones given by C. W. Leadbeater or mentioned by Annie Besant as being proper?

M. Sufilight

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Frank Reitemeyer 
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Alkaline in Martian soil

I have found some paragraphs in the theosophical literature, which deals 
with the sex problem:

1. "If the man be celibate, the reproductive germ or stimulated life-atom is 
unable to pursue its course of growth and is used to build up and strengthen 
merely the body of the man in the manner briefly described. In such case the 
Ray having its purpose thwarted is almost immediately withdrawn and seeks 
elsewhere to follow its course through another germinal growth."
http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/et/et-30.htm

2. http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/et/et-21.htm

3. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/sex3.htm

4. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/sexquo.htm

Frank

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Morten Nymann Olesen
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Alkaline in Martian soil

May I ask you Zaitzev:

So how do you learn how to learn?
Is it through ignorance about sexual matters within The Theposophical 
Soceity?

M. sufilight

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Konstantin Zaitzev
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 10:14 AM
Subject: Theos-World Alkaline in Martian soil

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen"
<global-theosophy@...> wrote:

> I thought I once heard something about Alkaline batteries or
> something like that.

Alkaline is any substance opposite to acid. The reaction can be either
acidic, neutral or alkaline, and ph is a parameter to measure it.
Do they not study chemistry in the schools of your country? It seems
that the sexual issues have more important place in the curriculum.

What interests me more, why they search for life on the poles of Mars?
Would they find much life on the poles of Earth?

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