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Re: Failure of Krishnamurti on the path of occultism

May 30, 2008 05:07 AM
by prmoliveira

--- In, "Anand" <AnandGholap@...> wrote:
> I was saying that Masters gave certain ideas through the TS using
> disciples like HPB, AB, CWL. These ideas included God. It will be 
> strange if we assume that these disciples invented God, when Masters
> did not approve it. 


If you read "Isis Unveiled", "The Secret Doctrine" and "The Key to 
Theosophy", you will see that none of these books supports the idea 
of a personal God. In the Besant-Leadbeater literature, the concept 
of God is strongly associated with the Greek notion of "Logos", the 
Creative Word, the Divine Intelligence. As I see it, neither of the 
concepts just mentioned supports the idea of the Aristotelian-Tomist 
God of the theologians. K.H. referred to it as a "loup garou", a 
werewolf, in other words, an aberration. The word "God" is one of the 
most emotionally and ideologically loaded concepts in existence. 

> > As far as I can see, in the Mahatma letter which I quoted K.H. is 
> > attacking the wise teachers who left a legacy of wisdom. 
> According to wise teachers like Jesus, Shankaracharya and most other
> teachers God exists. In fact Indian spiritual writings tell that God
> is the only one who exists and forms which we see are maya or
> illusion. Do you want to say that these teachers made a mistake of
> inventing God ? In Jesus' teaching God, the Father is most 

The word "God" does not belong to the Indian tradition. It is 
originated in the Old Testament. Words that refer to the Divine 
Ground in the Indian tradition are "Brahman" (Vastness), "Shiva" 
(Auspicious, Good), "Parabrahman" (Absolute, Eternal), among others. 
In the Jesus teachings, the concept of "God" assumes an immediacy 
which is deeply mystical ("I and my Father are one"). This is very 
different from the Aristotelian concept of God as the "First Mover", 
a universal machine. In Christian theology, the Aristotelian 
viewpoint won the war and the Neo-Platonic view of the early Church 
fathers like Clement of Alexandria and Origen (both Initiates 
accodring to HPB) was suppressed, hunted down and proclaimed as being 

> Same is true in all Indian spiritual writings and Hinduism. In Gita
> Shree Krishna shows to Arjuna how everything exists in God, how
> everything and everyone lives and ceases to exist in God. Do you 
> to say that Shree Krishna was telling false things to Arjuna ?

The word "God" simply does not exist in the text of the Bhagavad 
Gita. The word which is used is "Ishwara", 'Supreme Spirit'.

> With the exception of Buddhism, in all great religions God is 
central. But
> how many followers of Buddhism are there in the world ? As compared 
> followers of Christianity, Hinduism, Islam and Judaism combined,
> followers of Buddhism are very few. It appears that their no-God 
> is not appreciated by the intuition of large number of people.

If you are born in a Christian or Hindu or Muslim or Jewish family, 
do you have much choice? Normally, a child will be educated and 
condiotioned according to the religion of his or her parents. I think 
that if you search for statistics of religious affiliation today, you 
would be surprised with the number of Buddhists in the world. I am 
sure it is nowadays over a billion people. In Australian, Buddhism is 
the fastest growing religion, particularly among young people who 
have declared themselves frustrated and utterly disappointed with 
Christianity and its many dogmatic aspects. 

> I also see one more meaning in the letter. Masters might be saying
> that dependence on old religions should lessen  and advanced people
> should rely on new and better religions like Theosophy, LCC. 
However I
> don't think Theosophy and LCC can be understood by common people.
> These can become religion  for more advanced souls. For common 
> Christianity will still be very useful in keeping people on the path
> of virtue.

This may be a very dangerous notion: "religion  for more advanced 
souls". Who is the judge? Who can judge? What are the criteria? If a 
person finds inspiration and clarity in any teaching that is their 
business. When the Portuguese arrived in Brazil in 1500, the jesuit 
fathers that came with them gave them permission to kill native 
aborigenes because, according to their theology, the aborigenes did 
not have a soul! As a result, one of the Portuguese explorers once 
came back from a jungle incursion bringing nothing less than 7,000 
ears that his men had cut off from the aborigenes they had killed. In 
other words, the jesuits' "God" was nothing less than a gigantic 
killing machine. 



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