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Re: Theos-World Re: Independent Inquiry into the TS Election

May 24, 2008 06:38 PM
by MarieMAJ41

Whatever you say, Govert. My positions come from a belief in honesty, integrity and , I expect honesty and integrity from those who hold themselves above me. Most especially those people who hold themselves above me. I also do not like sanctimonious and stupid people, but that comes from my own ego problems. I  remember your pleasant companionship, our coffees together, and our meetings about the Prophet and the violet flame. We had many discussions, and I enjoyed them all, as I still enjoy your lectures and your work for the world. Do not misunderstand me, Govert, I have nothing against you. You are not running for an office that should have within it the highest motives, the highest standards, the highest integrity and the highest and best persons to spread theosophy to the world. Radha and John both do these very well. But they lack honesty and integrity. IMO. They seem to compromise their highest values when they seek to keep or obtain more power. That is where I am coming from. They seem to believe that whatever it takes, they are the ones who should be in power. Why? And why are there only 2 nominations? Ask yourself that. Because it is a closed circle....excluding many qualified people. John and Radha both have ceased to be my role models. I am disappointed in them, almost like a child is, when they find out that their parents are not infallible. That is who I am, that, and so much more.

-----Original Message-----
From: Govert Schuller <>
Sent: Sun, 25 May 2008 2:33 am
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Independent Inquiry into the TS Election

Dear Marie and Ramadoss,

On the point of 'situating' anybody in his/her historical circumstances in
order to get a better sense of that person's position, I do wholeheartedly
agree. And including in those circumstances I would not zoom too narrowly at
the present, but include significant milestones, affiliations, relations,
events, statements, publications, etc. in the past, involvement in present
projects, and statements, if available, about future intentions.

But then to jump to the conclusion that my specific position is compromised,
in the morally pejorative sense, because of my historical situatedness with
the TS is a bit of a stretch, if not offensive.

Everybody com-promises one way or the other, meaning, our being-together on
this earth includes mutual promises and expectations regarding the future
and forgiveness and letting things slide regarding the past. The structure
of one's living present is then held between these two attitudes towards the
past and the future. And it's the qualities of honesty, politeness,
integrity, understanding, etc with which we com-promising-ly relate to the
past and the future that will com-promise the quality of one's present and
presence to others.

So, in the case of these elections I look at the Krishnamurti issue and how
the candidates have positioned themselves in that regard; I reflect on my
exchanges with the candidates; and, most importantly, I try to perceive the
whole situation from an esoteric psycho-historical point of view including
futural implications. It's from that stand I try to develop my positions,
proposals, com-promises, communications, choices, relations, etc. Of course,
ego kicks in here and there, which will indeed undermine the intergrity of
my position, but that's betweem me and myself, unless I become such a
blatant ego-maniac that the community can call me upon it.

In the case of my relationship to the TSA (I live around the corner) I do
intend to get more involved and will next month volunteer at Far Horizons
for a couple of months, go low-tech (you won't hear from me for a while) and
just enjoy nature and new friends. Of course I will try to convert TS people
to my position, extract advantageous quid pro quos for my service and
scarifice, and further bore myself into the organization as a Prophet-mole.
I promise.

And if, in the proces, that gains me another chance to talk to 25 people for
80 minutes at the TSA, or conduct another class (for 'full' disclosure I did
2: one on Krishnamurti and one on the philosophical school of phenomenology,
and a third is in the make) well, swell, if not, too bad.

So, what are your positions from which you com-promise?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "MKR" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 7:19 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Independent Inquiry into the TS Election


You have brought out an important point.

With all organizations, one better tow official line and not go against the
leaders, if you expect anything from the organization or its leaders. It
could be your job, opportunity to use their platform to speak or lecture,
etc. Once you are seen as opposing the organization or towing their official
policy, or disagree with its leaders, you lose these. So one's real
independence is compromised. That is fact of life. So when we see messages
here, if there is any association issue, I read them with a grain of salt.


On 5/23/08, <> wrote:
> Also, dear Govert, please disclose the fact that you have lectured at the
> TS in Wheaton, and probably will again in the future, that is, if you vote
> correctly. Because how you voted will be known by those in power.
> Marie
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Govert Schuller < <>>
> To: <>
> Sent: Fri, 23 May 2008 11:17 pm
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Independent Inquiry into the TS Election
> Dear Jokela,
> You'll find my analysis of the letters at:
> I tired to be as objective as possible, though, for full disclosure, I am
> supporting John's candidacy (and do so uncoordinated with anybody else)
> Govert
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: < <>>
> To: < <>>
> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 4:47 AM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Independent Inquiry into the TS Election
> >
> >
> > I am not so updated about all the letters and dates. So I
> > may
> > be totally wrong. Sorry for that.
> >
> > No matter who started, Radha continued campaining.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 23 May 2008 07:01:14 -0000
> > "prmoliveira" < <>> wrote:
> > > --- In <>,
> jokelap@... wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >> Campaining started just when Radha sent her letter out
> > >>no
> > >> matter if
> > >> by airmail. Some of the members of the GC got it at
> > >>Adyar
> > >> before the
> > >> Ms. Carbonelle´s email was sent out. Maybe Carbonelle´s
> > >> letter was
> > >> reaction againts Radha´s campaining letter. So please
> > >> dont´t twist the
> > >> truth here!
> > >
> > >
> > > The truth of facts cannot be twisted:
> > >
> > > Radha Burnier's letter to General Council members was
> > >dated 12 March
> > > 2008 and was sent by air mail.
> > >
> > > Elvira Carbonell's letter to General Council members was
> > >sent by
> > > email on 19 December 2007.
> > >
> > > I am sure that you will be able to explain how a letter
> > >written on 12
> > > March 2008 can be obtained by General Council members
> > >who were at
> > > Adyar in December 2007. Maybe it could be a case of
> > >'retroactive
> > > precipitation'.
> > >
> > >
> > > Pedro
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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