Theos-Talk Archives (May 2008 Message tt00741)

Dear Govert,

I must make a correction:

>But it is not so after the voting material is sent out (Sections IV, 
V, VI). ...<

There are only Sections IV and V.

Best regards,
Anton


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Anton Rozman" <anton_rozman@...> 
wrote:
>
> Dear Govert,
> 
> Maybe my presentation is not clear enough and I should put headings 
> in front of sections which follow the nomination and election 
process 
> as stated in the Rules and Regulations.
> 
> The Sections I, II, and III refers to the nominations period and in 
> that period there are no restrictions regarding the circulation of 
> any material present in the Rules and Regulations.
> 
> But it is not so after the voting material is sent out (Sections 
IV, 
> V, VI). In that period there is a specific restriction present in 
the 
> Rules and Regulations: "Other material concerning the candidates 
> shall not be circulated." So, any circulation of any material in 
that 
> period is infringement of the Rules and Regulations and therefore 
> your analysis is very valuable and your conclusions, in my view, 
> correct. 
> 
> Now, regarding some of your other observations, I don't want to 
enter 
> too much into details for this would necessarily mean to express 
too 
> personal views about some ethical behavior of co-members. 
> 
> But regarding the Elvira Carbonell's email letter I think that it 
> didn't violate any Rule. While regarding the status of the 
> President's letter, I think that this is not relevant; any 
> distribution of any material concerning the elections is 
prohibited. 
> There should be what we call here "elections silence"; no member 
> should try to influence any other member of the TS. Besides that in 
> his Timeline Pedro Oliveira wrote: "12 March 2008 - Radha Burnier 
> writes a letter, by ordinary mail, in her personal letterhead, to 
all 
> General Secretaries of the TS, ?", so it wasn't "private" letter.
> 
> Thanks and warmest regards,
> Anton 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Govert Schuller" <schuller@> 
> wrote:
> >
> > "II/3 Comment: There are no restrictions present in the Rules and
> > Regulations
> > regarding the material sent by whomsoever regarding the 
> nominations."
> > 
> > Dear Anton,
> > 
> > Thank you for pointing this out, and for doing the rest of your 
> analysis.
> > This is very important to contemplate in this situation, because, 
> if any and
> > all letters are legitimate according to this interpretation, then 
we
> > actually have no problem! Case closed and I'll have to revise my 
> analysis of
> > the letters.
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/44374
> > 
> > But, ... even though the Rules and Regulations do not restrict the
> > dissemination of 'electioneering' and other material (and for the 
> sake of
> > freedom of expression and tranparency of procedures I do agree 
with 
> that),
> > the problem lies with the use of official mailing-lists and the 
poor
> > contextualization and ligitimazation of the letters send (Except 
> for one,
> > i.e. Betty Bland's letter to the GC. See my analysis). And it's 
> here that I
> > think the crux of the matter lies. My observations then would be 
> (still) the
> > following:
> > 
> > 1) Did Elvira Carbonell use her position as assistant-secretary 
to 
> the TS
> > secretary to get access to the mailing-list of GC members in 
order 
> to,
> > possibly illigimately, send all of them her ligitimate concerns? 
Or 
> did she
> > only send to those she personally knew and was friends with and 
> therefore
> > was exercising her non-restricted right to freely express herself 
> to her
> > peers? Or, there is no problem, because the e-mail and snail-mail 
> addresses
> > of the GC are public property anyway as they are posted on the TS 
> Adyar web
> > site at http://www.ts-adyar.org/directory.html ?
> > 
> > The question is very relevant also in the light of the fact that 
> she was
> > asked to leave. What was the reason for that? If she was told to 
> leave
> > because of the content of her letter, then others, having made 
> similar
> > infringements, should be in trouble too. Or, if she was asked to 
> leave for
> > illigitimate use of her access to an official mailing list, then 
> again,
> > others, having made similar infringements, should be in trouble 
> too. Or, we
> > follow your (Anton) lead and perceive all these letters as non-
> restricted
> > communications, regardless of how e-mail and snail-mail addresses 
> were
> > obtained, and declare the case closed. Or, there was no problem 
at 
> all, as I
> > indicated above, because she used a publicly accessible mailing-
> list and
> > therefore be offered an official apology and gesture of 
> compensation.
> > 
> > 2) What is the status PTS Burnier letter? Still, nothing 
definitive 
> can be
> > said about that. My hypothesis is still that the letter "started 
> out as a
> > private letter, but through wide dissemination it became a de 
facto
> > electioneering letter, which then, implausibly, was construed as 
a 
> response
> > to Carbonell to defend its legitimacy." As she herself has not 
> addressed
> > this, nor anybody else for that matter, it is still open how to 
> perceive her
> > letter.
> > 
> > (BTW, those who call upon the other actors in this case to come 
> forth and
> > explain and/or correct certain statements, should also be 
concerned 
> about
> > the unclear status of the PTS letter, and call equally upon her 
to 
> do so. My
> > position is here that all communications were voluntary and that 
> only if any
> > of the writers think they made an egregious mistake, then they 
> should
> > voluntarily come forward to confess. Otherwise, when others think 
> egregious
> > mistakes were made, our system of checks and balances can kick in 
> with
> > filing complaints and requesting an inquiry.)
> > 
> > 3) Did Betty Bland have sufficient reason to use the official TSA
> > mailing-list to disseminate her private letter? As stated before, 
> her letter
> > to the GC was in my opinion entirely legitimate, because it was a 
> response
> > to what she perceived as electioneering and she used a mailing-
list 
> open to
> > the public. Her letter to the TSA membership is problematic, 
> because of the
> > mailing-list issue, and because she provided a poor 
legitimization 
> and
> > contextualization for breaking both tradition and rules. Still, 
she 
> might
> > have broken open an important issue that probably should have 
been 
> earlier
> > and better addressed by the PTS herself and/or the Election 
> Committee.
> > 
> > Thanks again, Anton, for your contribution. I move to have it 
> listed high up
> > in the Slovenia TS web site on the 2008 elections.
> > 
> > Yours Sincerely
> > 
> > Govert
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Anton Rozman" <anton_rozman@>
> > To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 7:53 AM
> > Subject: Theos-World Re: Independent Inquiry into the TS Election
> > 
> > 
> > Dear friends,
> > 
> > It seems that once again an attempt to make an impartial 
observation
> > is needed in regard to the authority and due acting of certain 
> bodies
> > of the TS regarding the election process. As there are not all 
data
> > available some presumptions will be included.
> > 
> > I/1 Rules and Regulations:
> > 
> > (a) Seven months before the expiration of a President's term of
> > office, or within three days of the office becoming vacant, the
> > Executive Committee shall appoint a special Committee consisting 
of
> > three members of The Theosophical Society in good standing 
including
> > the Secretary, but excluding any candidate for the office of
> > President, to carry out the election procedure as herein under
> > detailed. This Committee shall be known as the Election Committee 
> and
> > shall be answerable only to the Executive Committee.
> > 
> > I/2 Execution:
> > 
> > In December (data not available) 2007 the Executive Committee
> > appointed the Election Committee.
> > 
> > ....
> > 
> > II/1 Rules and Regulations:
> > 
> > (b) Immediately on its appointment; the Election Committee shall
> > instruct the Secretary to send out to the members of the General
> > Council a written call for nominations for the office of 
President.
> > The call for nominations shall be sent by airmail or other
> > expeditious means if airmail be unavailable, followed one week 
later
> > by a second (duplicate) call.
> > 
> > II/2 Execution:
> > 
> > 18 December 2007 the call for nominations was sent by airmail by
> > International Secretary.
> > 
> > 19 December 2007 an email letter was sent to members of the 
General
> > Council by assistant to the International Secretary regarding the
> > nominations.
> > 
> > II/3 Comment:
> > 
> > There are no restrictions present in the Rules and Regulations
> > regarding the material sent by whomsoever regarding the 
nominations.
> > 
> > ....
> > 
> > III/1 Rules and Regulations:
> > 
> > (d) At the expiration of ten weeks, the Election Committee shall
> > place all the nominations received, together with the relevant
> > papers, before the Executive Committee at a meeting especially
> > convened for the purpose. At such meeting the Executive Committee
> > shall examine the nominations.
> > 
> > III/2 Execution:
> > 
> > Presumably in March (data not available) the Election Committee
> > placed the nominations received, together with the relevant 
papers,
> > before the Executive Committee.
> > 
> > III/3 Comment:
> > 
> > Presumably the Election Committee and the Executive Committee 
didn't
> > find any point of the nomination process disputable.
> > 
> > ....
> > 
> > IV/1 Rules and Regulations:
> > 
> > (e) The Secretary shall then immediately communicate in writing by
> > airmail or other expeditious means (followed one week later by a
> > second and duplicate communication) the voting list together with
> > biographical data of the candidates in accordance with Appendix A 
to
> > these Rules, to the General Secretaries, Regional Secretaries,
> > Organizing Secretaries, and Presidential Representatives and to 
the
> > Lodges (Branches) and Fellows-at-large attached to Headquarters.
> > 
> > Other material concerning the candidates shall not be 
> circulated. ...
> > Other information may be included but must be factual and shall 
not
> > contain statements of opinion or policy. The biographical data for
> > circulation shall be drawn up by the Election Committee on the 
basis
> > of the information supplied by the candidates, and shall be 
approved
> > by the Executive Committee (excluding any candidates for election)
> > before being issued.
> > 
> > IV/2 Execution:
> > 
> > Presumably in March (data not available) the Executive Committee
> > communicated in writing by airmail the voting list together with
> > biographical data of the candidates to the General Secretaries,
> > Regional Secretaries, Organizing Secretaries, and Presidential
> > Representatives and to the Lodges (Branches) and Fellows-at-large
> > attached to Headquarters.
> > 
> > 12 March 2008 the President (one of the candidates) wrote a 
letter 
> to
> > all General Secretaries of the TS regarding the elections. The 
> letter
> > is delivered to the members at least in some countries.
> > 
> > 19 March 2008 the National President of the TS in America sent an
> > email message to all General Secretaries regarding the elections.
> > 
> > 29 March 2008 the French TS Board issued a circular letter to all 
TS
> > members in France regarding the elections.
> > 
> > 11 April 2008 the National President of the TS in America issued a
> > personal letter to all American TS members regarding the 
elections.
> > 
> > Other correspondence between officials and members regarding the
> > elections were taking place.
> > 
> > IV/3 Comment:
> > 
> > Presumably the Election Committee didn't report to the Executive
> > Committee that violations of the Rules and Regulations regarding 
the
> > elections were going on. Presumably members of the Executive
> > Committee themselves didn't react to the violations and didn't 
find
> > necessary to call a special meeting regarding the elections.
> > Presumably the President didn't react in regard to the violations 
of
> > the Rules and Regulations concerning the elections and 
functioning 
> of
> > the Election Committee and the Executive Committee.
> > 
> > .....
> > 
> > V/1 Rules and Regulations:
> > 
> > Other material concerning the candidates shall not be 
> circulated. ...
> > Other information may be included but must be factual and shall 
not
> > contain statements of opinion or policy. The biographical data for
> > circulation shall be drawn up by the Election Committee on the 
basis
> > of the information supplied by the candidates, and shall be 
approved
> > by the Executive Committee (excluding any candidates for election)
> > before being issued.
> > 
> > V/2 Execution:
> > 
> > 19 April 2008 the Election Committee at Adyar issues a letter to 
the
> > General Secretary of the Theosophical Society in France regarding 
> the
> > elections (in favor of one candidate).
> > 
> > V/3 Comment:
> > 
> > Presumably the Election Committee didn't seek that the letter 
should
> > be approved by the Executive Committee, so it itself violated the
> > Rules and Regulations.
> > 
> > .......
> > 
> > Summary:
> > 
> > Obviously the violations of the Rules and Regulations in regard to
> > the elections took place and the fact that it seems that none of 
the
> > responsible bodies of the TS (members of the General Council, the
> > President, the Election Committee and the Executive Committee) 
> didn't
> > react officially to settle the problems shows that there is 
present
> > serious dysfunction of the TS administration. So, it seems that 
> there
> > is an urgent activation of all unifying forces and the TS' bodies
> > needed, not to investigate quite clear situation, but to bring the
> > functioning of the TS within the constitutional frame and to 
propose
> > the best solutions for the near future. In my view, a pragmatic
> > solution in the best interest of the TS would be to indeed 
nominate
> > for that purpose an extended and provisory council formed out of
> > respected and capable members as Sections' representatives. And 
then
> > encourage, help and support young members, unconditioned by the 
past
> > wounds, to create the Theosophical Society they want and deserve 
in
> > the future.
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > Anton
> > 
> > 
> > p.s. If an independent inquiry should be anyway conducted into the
> > election process as a whole then the standards which are usual for
> > the democratic inquiries may be of help:
> > 
> > 1. Inquiry is taken up on the basis of the description of matter 
of
> > public significance which has to be the subject of inquiry, the
> > statement of purpose of inquiry and the expected extend of 
inquiry.
> > 2. For the execution of inquiry a special Commission is formed.
> > 3. A Commission has to determine the procedure. The rules of
> > procedure have to safeguard the right of the parties to a fair
> > procedure. Its work is based on the principles of impartiality,
> > independence and competency.
> > 4. A Commission does not confine its work to an examination of
> > information furnished by parties themselves or in support of their
> > contentions but takes all necessary measures to obtain as complete
> > and objective information as possible on the matters at issue.
> > 5. It is essential for the execution of inquiry that interested
> > public has as much information about the proceedings to assure the
> > transparency of inquiry.
> > 6. A Commission draws exact records of inquiry (including the full
> > registration of public hearings) and finishes it with the report 
and
> > suggested measures.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------
> > 
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> >
>