Theos-Talk Archives (March 2008 Message tt00160)

  I also think the work came mainly from K.H. and Morya. And the two
seem to have a special link of working together. Why so I don´t know,
but Morya works constantly with K.H. , it is said, even today.
  My opinion is, the link of the Masters with the T.S. could only be
established again if some things were different. And among them,
perhaps Theosophy itself. I base this point of view in K.H.´s letter
in which he clearly states that the T.S. had turned to a cult and he
would not therefore influence it anymore. As he was the one who
strived for the acceptance of the idea of the formation of the T.S.
and the most enthusiastic of the Masters on the T.S., it is obvious
that along with him probably Morya and the others left also.
  It is interesting that the Venetian Master is so little known and
mentioned in Theosophical literature. Christina has given in this
forum some information concerning him and the 3rd Ray, which I found
particularly exact. I don´t know where she got that from. It seems the
Venetian has strong relation to music and also to colours or art of
any type. 
  Below are some observations on the Rays and elements I received from
a psychic and found logical:

RAY 1- ELEMENT FIRE - Will, ?
RAY 2- ELEMENT AIR - Wisdom, ? 
RAY 3- ELEMENT EARTH - Love and Mind, mental awareness and mental dextery.
RAY 4- ELEMENT WATER - Love as Beauty; emotional balance.

The other Rays have not been given me their corresponding elements.
 
  Fred


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@...> wrote:
>
> I am quite certain that if DK took on the job that HPB would have
referenced him.  I have no doubt that he may have played a part, but I
believe the bulk of the work came through KH and Morya, after all, DK
was their chela.
>    
>   Cass
> 
> Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@...> wrote:
>           To all readers
> 
> My views are:
> 
> Now who wrote the Secret Doctrine?
> Was it as Alice A. Bailey in the below claims mostly Master D. K. or
was it as claimed in Mahatma Letters the Master M and KH?
> 
> I will in the below give some quotes, so to show, why I think Alice
A. Bailey are mistaken.
> 
> 1.
> H. S. Olcott writes:
> "On the following night -- as my Diary entry states -- "H. P. B. got
from her Teacher the plan for her Secret Doctrine, and it is
excellent. " (ODL, III: 199-200)
> 
> "On January 6, 1886, HPB wrote to Olcott that The Secret Doctrine
would be the vindication of herself and her teachers.
> 
> For Secret Doctrine is entirely new. There will not be there 20
pages quoted by bits from Isis. . . . 
> In four Parts -- Archaic, Ancient, Mediaeval and Modern Periods.
Each Part 12 chapters, with Appendices and a Glossary of 
> terms at the end. Countess here, and she sees I have almost no
books. Master and Kashmiri (M and KH) dictating in turn. 
> She copies all. -- Theos., Aug. 1931, 667"
> 
> 2.
> Countess Constance Wachtmeister writes:
> "One day during this time, when I walked into HPB's writing room, I
found the floor strewn with sheets of discarded 
> manuscript. I asked the meaning of this scene of confusion, and she
replied, "Yes, I have tried twelve times to write this one page
correctly, and each time Master says it is wrong. I will not pause
until I have conquered it, even if I have to go on all night."
> 
> I brought a cup of coffee to refresh and sustain her, and then left
her to prosecute the weary task. An hour later I heard her voice
calling me, and on entering found that, at last, the passage was
completed to satisfaction, but the labor had been terrible, and the
results were often at this time small and uncertain.
> 
> As she leaned back, enjoying her cigarette and the sense of relief
from an arduous effort, I rested on the arm of her great chair and
asked her how it was that she could make mistakes in recording what
was given to her.
> 
> She said, "Well, you see, what I do is this. I make what I can only
describe as a sort of vacuum in the air before me, and fix my sight
and my will upon it, and soon scene after scene passes before me like
the successive pictures of a diorama, or, if I need a reference or
information from some book, I fix my mind intently, and the astral
counterpart of the book appears, and from it I take what I need. The
more perfectly my mind is freed from distractions and mortifications,
the more energy and intentness it possesses, the more easily I can do
this; but today, after all the vexations I have undergone in
consequence of the letter from X., I could not concentrate properly,
and each time I tried I got the quotations all wrong. Master says it
is right now, so let us go in and have some tea.""
> (Reminiscences of H.P. Blavatsky and The Secret Doctrine, by
Countess Constance Wachtmeister -
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/his/hpb_wach.htm)
> 
> 3.
> The Master KH gives further insight into the writing of the SD in
his letter to Olcott, August 1888:
> "I have also noted, your thoughts about the "Secret Doctrine". Be
assured that what she has not annotated from 
> scientific and other works, we have given or suggested to her. Every
mistake or erroneous notion, corrected and explained 
> by her from the works of other theosophists was corrected by me, or
under my instruction. It is a more valuable work than 
> its predecessor [Isis], an epitome of occult truths that will make
it a source of information and instruction for the 
> earnest student for long years to come." -- Letters from the Masters
of the Wisdom, No. 19, 1:47, 5th ed. 
> 
> M. SUFILIGHT:
> This of course does not imply that Master KH wrote the whole of The
Secret Dcotrine.
> 
> 4.
> We will see, that it was in fact KH and Morya, who wrote the Scret
Doctrine and not D.K.:
> "There have been many who have been loth to acknowledge that it may
have been written, at any rate in large part, by one or more of the
Masters of the Wisdom, but we do have the following certificates that
were sent to Dr Hübbe-Schleiden:
> 
> The first certificate alluded to runs thus:-
> "I wonder if this note of mine is worthy of occupying a select spot
with the documents reproduced, and which of the peculiarities of the
'Blavatskian' style of writing it will be found to most resemble? The
present is simply to satisfy 
> the doctor that 'the more proof given the less believed'. Let him
take my advice and not make these two documents public. 
> It is for his own satisfaction the undersigned is happy to assure
him that The Secret Doctrine, when ready, will be the triple
production of [here are the names of one of the Masters and of H.P.B.]
and --- most humble servant", [signed by the other].
> 
> On the back of this was the following, signed by the Master who is
mentioned in the above:-
> "If this can be of any use or help to ---, though I doubt it, I, the
humble undersigned Faquir, certify that The Secret 
> Doctrine is dictated to [name of H.P.B.] partly by myself and partly
by my brother ---".
> 
> A year after this, certain doubts having arisen in the minds of
individuals, another letter from one of the signers of the foregoing
was sent, and read as follows. As the prophecy in it has come true, it
is now the time to publish it for the benefit of those who know
something of how to take and understand such letters. For the outsider
it will all be so much nonsense:
> 
> "The certificate given last year, saying that The Secret Doctrine
would be, when finished, the triple production of 
> [H.P.B's name], --- and myself, was and is correct, although some
have doubted not only the facts given in it, but also the authenticity
of the message in which it was contained. Copy this, and also keep the
copy of the afore-said certificate. You will find them both of use on
the day when you shall, as will happen without your asking, receive
from the hands of the very person to whom the certificate was given,
the original for the purpose of allowing you to copy it; and then you
can verify the correctness of this presently forwarded copy. And it
may then be well to indicate to those wishing to know what portions in
The Secret Doctrine have been copied by the pen of [H.P.B's name] into
its pages, though without quotation marks, from my own manuscript and
perhaps from ---, though the last is more difficult from the rarity of
his known writing and greater ignorance of his style. All this and
more will be found necessary as time goes on, but for which you are
well qualified to
>  wait".
> [The Path, April 1893]"
> (http://www.blavatskytrust.org.uk/html/trilogy_sd.htm)
> 
> The originals of these letters are as far as I have heard to be
found in Hübbe-Schleiden's collecting of papers. 
> 
> 5.
> "Another witness to such a phenomenon (during H.P.B's stay in
Würzburg) was Dr Hübbe-Schleiden who writes, I saw a good deal of the
well-known blue K.H. handwriting as corrections and annotations on her
manuscript as well as in books that lay occasionally on her desk. And
I noticed this principally in the morning before she had commenced to
work. I slept on the couch in her study after she had withdrawn for
the night and the couch stood only a few feet from her desk. I
remember well my astonishment one morning when I got up to find a
great many pages of foolscap covered with that blue pencil handwriting
lying on her own manuscript, at her place on her desk. How these pages
got there I do not know, but I did not see them before I went to
sleep, and no person had been bodily in the room during the night, for
I am a light sleeper. [Reminiscences, 112/3]"
> (http://www.blavatskytrust.org.uk/html/trilogy_sd.htm)
> 
> - - - - - - - Now contrast this with Alice A. Bailey's words - - - -
- - -
> 
> In contrast Alice A. Bailey writes:
> "He occupies himself with various pupils of different Masters who
can profit by his instruction, and within the last ten years has
relieved both the Master M. and the Master K. H. of a good deal of
their teaching work, taking over from them for certain stated times
some of their pupils and disciples. He works largely, too, with
certain groups of the devas of the ethers, who are the healing devas,
and who thus collaborate with him in the work of healing some of the
physical ills of humanity. He it was who dictated a large part of that
momentous book The Secret Doctrine, and who showed to H. P. Blavatsky
many of the pictures, and gave her much of the data that is to be
found in that book."
> (Alice A. Bailey - in Initiation Human and Solar - Chapter 5, p. 58
- http://nimrodgroup.org/AAB )
> 
> M. SUFILIGHT:
> There is here a strong indication on, that Alice A. Bailey wanted to
rewrite history, without having the proper knowledge about the events
which took place. The reason for doing this we can only wonder about.
Maybe it was to water down the Masters Morya and Khoot Hoomi. Or
perhaps Alice A. Bailey was under the influence of someone calling
himself D.K. who had this agenda.
> And when I am myself, through my inner researches, as well lead to
the conclusion, that most of what was written in the Secret Doctrine
passed from Morya one way or the other through to H. P. Blavatsky, I
cannot help saying that Alice A. Bailey made a mistake here.
> 
> Remember, that H. P. Blavatsky already then when writing The Secret
Doctrine was a woman, who was capeable of dematerialising and
rematerialising her physical body when in need. H. S. Olcott testified
to this in his Diary. He wrote that it had occurred several times. 
> 
> Look here: 
> The Count de Saint-Germain and H.P.B.- Two Messengers of the White
Lodge By H.S. Olcott ( http://www.theosophical.ca/SaintGermain.htm) 
> 
> Any comments?
> 
> M. Sufilight
> 
> H. P. Blavatsky said:"The Society founded to remedy the glaring
evils of Christianity, to shun bigotry and intolerance, cant and
superstition and to cultivate real universal love extending even to
the dumb brute".(The Collected Writings of H. P. Blavatsky, vol. 7, p.246)
> 
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> 
> 
> 
>                          
> 
>        
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