Theos-Talk Archives (March 2008 Message tt00157)

Now, people assume that there can be no apes in the other world, because apes have no "souls." But apes have as much intelligence, it appears, as some men; why, then, should these men, in no way superior to the apes, have immortal spirits, and the apes none? The materialists will answer that neither the one nor the other has a spirit, but that annihilation overtakes each at physical death. But the spiritual philosophers of all times have agreed that man occupies a step one degree higher than the animal, and is possessed of that something which it lacks, be he the most untutored of savages or the wisest of philosophers. The ancients, as we have seen, taught that while man is a septenary trinity of body, astral spirit, and immortal soul, the animal is but a duality--i.e., having but five instead of seven principles in him, a being having a physical body with its astral body and life-principle, and its animal soul and vehicle animating it. Scientists can distinguish no
 difference in the elements composing the bodies of men and brutes; and the Kabalists agree with them so far as to say that the astral bodies (or, as the physicists would call it, the "life-principle") of animals and men are identical in essence. Physical man is but the highest development of animal life. If, as the scientists tell us, even thought is matter, and every sensation of pain or pleasure, every transient desire is accompanied by a disturbance of ether; and those bold speculators, the authors of the Unseen Universe believe that thought is conceived "to affect the matter of another universe simultaneously with this"; why, then, should not the gross, brutish thought of an orang-outang, or a dog, impressing itself on the ethereal waves of the astral light, as well as that of man, assure the animal a continuity of life after death, or a "future state"? 
  Let us advance another step in our argument. If there is such a thing as existence in the spiritual world after corporeal death, then it must occur in accordance with the law of evolution. It takes man from his place at the apex of the pyramid of matter, and lifts him into a sphere of existence where the same inexorable law follows him. And if it follows him, why not everything else in nature? Why not animals and plants, which have all a life-principle, and whose gross forms decay like his, when that life-principle leaves them? If his astral body becomes more ethereal upon attaining the other sphere, why not theirs?* 
  Lucifer, August, 1893 
   


Scribe <scribe@rs.org> wrote:          Thank you, Nigel, and everybody here,

Not only here in this forum, but I'm think it is so nice to be among animal lovers, there seems to be this happy, warm feeling around.

I'm reminded that (one of the things) I need to work on is to raise my feelings and compassion for fellow humans to that level...

But what your posts brought to mind was the--for want of a better word in this forum--*psychic* abilities of pets. I'm reminded of stories on TV about cats in nursing homes, who always seem to know when a patient is going to pass on, this may sound goulish but I think they are in rapport with that person and are in some way helping with the transition.

This reminds me of a set of paperbacks I read over 30 years ago about "the Tibetan", by Lobsang Rampa, and in it the author said that when we sleep there's like a white thread that emanates from our head and goes up in the sky or something...

I know I've obverved that my cats always seem to be looking somewhere around the top of my head when I hold them, like they're checking the colors of my aura/head chakra/astral body to sense my mood. They sleep at the foot of our bed and I know they know when I'm awake because every morning as soon as I wake up--even though I don't stir a muscle--they'll get up and stretch and come up and nuzzle me--and I'll pet them and frizz them up and we'll all jump out of bed and start the day. Another great day. :)

Thank you all,
Don

----- Original Message ----- 
From: nhcareyta 
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 11:09 AM
Subject: Theos-World Re: Animals

Dear Don

Thank you for this heart warming/wrenching story.
You have shared such an intimate experience with us.

Connections with animals can touch us in the 
deepest of ways.

Through real experiences, despite some of 
Theosophy's propositions, we are left wondering 
about their degree of consciousness, if not 
self-consciousness.

When we had to euthanase one of our dogs a few 
years ago, the impact was emotionally devastating. 
We had shared each other's lives for over eleven 
years, through many eventful times. Our locked 
eyes whilst she was being injected connected us 
at the deepest level of emotion and, like you, 
tears flowed unashamedly.

We brought her body home and placed it into a hole 
next to our biggest tree in the back garden.

Following this something extraordinary happened.

Our family also included two cats we had rescued 
some ten years earlier, a mother and daughter.

Neither had ever been into the back garden because 
of our dog. Their territory was the front garden as 
well as inside the house.

Two or three minutes after we had laid Boo to rest, 
my wife and I sat down on our garden seat and almost 
immediately Mumpuss came from behind us and lay at 
my feet in exactly the place where Boo used to, in 
exactly the same sprawled out position.

She had climbed a trellis, onto and over the roof of 
the house, and across and down a pergola covered in 
thick ivy, something she had never done before, and 
lay at my side. 

Coincidence is a totally irrational explanation. 

It goes without saying, this and other unusual or 
unpredictable experiences with our family of animals 
are inexplicable in ordinary terms although easily 
understood from the Theosophical perspective of 
interconnectedness. Moreover, morphogenic fields 
and holographies help provide a more scientific 
rationale.

What cannot be denied is the sympathetic connection 
between animal and human where love rather than 
utility is involved. Our tears demonstrate 
infinitely more than mere emotion, and needs 
be rejoiced.

Whether this is beneficial for the animal or 
ourselves in our respective evolutionary journeys 
is a moot point, something we can discuss in my 
next posting in answer to your earlier one.

Kind regards
Nigel

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Scribe" <scribe@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Cass, I just love animals so much. We have three pets, they 
all adopted us, we live in a condo complex and I guess their owners 
dropped them off here for some reason. Anyway, one day a couple of 
years ago I saw a big cat out in our courtyard so I made food for it 
thinking we were going to have a new arrival. He was a big, black 
male cat. He was the biggest cat I ever saw, about three or four 
years old, as big as a small dog. I made friends with him and tried 
to get him to come inside and eat but he wanted to stay outside so I 
would go outside and sit with him while he ate. He would be at the 
front door every morning. This want on for a couple of weeks. I took 
him to our vet and got him checked out and neutered, in anticipation 
of bringing him inside for good because there are some neighbors who 
hate cats and put out traps for them, which I checked every night. 
One day I realized I hadn't seen him for a couple of days. I waited 
another day, worried all night. The next day I went to the animal 
shelter to see if he were there. I saw rows and rows of cages of 
little cats and they all looked at me and meowed at me with their big 
beautiful eyes. They had a couple of days and if they didn't get 
adopted they'd be put to sleep. He wasn't there. I got back to the 
parking lot and just stood by my car and cried like a baby. I just 
cried for them and the fact that I couldn't help them all, I couldn't 
help it, and to this day I won't drive on that street. The next 
morning he was standing outside the door waiting to be fed just like 
nothing had happened. I fed him just like nothing had happened. He 
came back for a couple of days. Then he wasn't there anymore. I don't 
know what happened to him or where he had been staying. I didn't go 
to the shelter. I really loved him right from the start, in a way I 
can't explain. My eyes are welling up right now. I named him 'Ebo' 
and I don't know why, the name just came to me right after the first 
time he let me pet him. I'm sorry I just couldn't go back to that 
shelter, although we drove all over the neighborhood for weeks after 
looking for him. We live near a university and it was near the end of 
semester and maybe his student owner took him back home with them. I 
love you, Ebo.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Cass Silva 
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 8:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Animals
> 
> 
> If I have read HPB right Scribe, I would say that they are just 
waiting for the human form in order to commence evolving self-
conscious awareness. So this suggests that they are individualised 
and although endowed with consciousness await self consciousness 
which can only evolve through the human form.
> 
> I too struggled with my pets as group souls as they were closer 
to the human kingdom than the animal kingdom. My daughter's labrador, 
much to my disdain, would sleep in the bed with her as a child, under 
the blankets with her head on the pillow!!!!
> 
> Cass
> 
> Scribe <scribe@...> wrote:
> Dear Nigel,
> 
> I have been troubled by this, too. Apparently it was, as you 
noted, written by AB that animals had a "group soul" and my idea of 
what was said was that when an animal--I'm thinking about my pets--
when they die their soul will sort of "dissolve" back into the animal 
soul pool, sort of like the "shape-shifter" in Babylon 5 or 
whichever. This bothered me and I was saddened by it. Then later I 
read a contraction (I guess by AB again) saying that statement had 
caused controversy and it was wrong. Also, I recall it being 
intimated that actually being close to an animal--pet--is doing it no 
favors because it's difficult for it to handle the increase in 
vibrations/evolution being in such contact and rapport with humans, 
in fact after they die they go into some kind of limbo until the next 
Mantavara when they can progress. In other words, that it was better 
not to get too close or emotionally attached because it wasn't good 
for them, or it would be hard or difficult for them,
> because of the increased something or other.
> 
> But, reading the links you provided in your post, I don't see how 
they address that issue, in fact the second one seems to agree with 
the concept of animal group souls.
> 
> I guess the question is: Are the animal souls individual--I guess 
I'm talking about domesticated pets--and can we meet again some day 
(because there's so much love there)?
> 
> Scribe
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: nhcareyta 
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 8:37 PM
> Subject: Theos-World Buddhi Re: The Coming Teacher?
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@> wrote:
> >
> > I am not sure who it was, but someone spoke about group souls 
for 
> animals, the reason being, that 'self conscious awareness' is not 
> evolved until we are in the human form. I read also that their 
are 
> two evolutions happening at the same time, the human and the 
angelic, 
> and that the angelic evolve from the bird kingdom. Maybe someone 
can 
> clarify what HPB's thoughts on this are.
> > Cass
> 
> Dear Cass
> 
> Group soul was a term used by Bishop C W 
> Leadbeater and Dr Annie Besant in their literature.
> 
> Bishop Leadbeater wrote about it variously in 
> "A Textbook of Theosophy", "Man, Visible and 
> Invisible" and "The Inner Life", amongst other 
> of his writings. 
> 
> Dr Besant wrote about it in "A Study in 
> Consciousness" and "Ancient Wisdom", also amongst 
> other of her writings. 
> 
> This is another concept they espoused that 
> manifestly contradicts that of Madame Blavatsky 
> and her teachers.
> 
> http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/thomas/thomasgroupsouls.htm
> 
> It was Bishop Leadbeater, Dr Besant and their 
> followers too who wrote about two streams of 
> evolution. Once again, this is their invention 
> and is in opposition to the Theosophical teachings 
> of Madame Blavatsky and her teachers.
> 
> http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/thomas/thomasevolution.htm
> 
> Regards
> Nigel
> 
> > 
> > Richard Semock <semockr@> wrote:
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "christinaleestemaker" 
> > <christinaleestemaker@> wrote:
> > >
> > > kUNDALINI IS THE COMBINATION OF THE POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE 
ENERGY 
> IN 
> > > THE SUSHUMNA,CAUSED BY IDA AND PINGALA.
> > > 
> > > That people make of everything they do'nt understand God or 
> Godesses 
> > > is realy absurd.
> > > Christina
> > 
> > Other teachers like Mx Heindel for instance speak of group 
spirits 
> such 
> > that lions as a group are guided by a group spirit. Birds of 
> various 
> > types are guided by their own group spirit and this is the 
basis of 
> > instinct that mysteriously guides them in their mass migrations 
and 
> > perfectly synchopated flight. 
> > 
> > I dont find it absurd to believe that we are guided or 
propelled by 
> a 
> > group spirit (or spirits..as in 7 rays) of our own whose method 
of 
> > interaction with us lies in finer energys such as kundalini. 
> > 
> > This extends to the next level of control which is seen in the 
> zodiac 
> > which is the womb of the solar system and there are no doubt 
layers 
> > upon layers on top of those. A rather cozy arrangement dont you 
> think?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ---------------------------------
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