Theos-Talk Archives (February 2008 Message tt00223)

Dear Mr Petri

Thank you for your response and please do not 
apologise; welcome to the conversation.


You ask, "Have you ever been in any of the LCC´s 
masses after all?"


Yes.


You ask, "?are you just pondering over this 
intellectually - comparing words of Mahatama 
to someone else´s ords?"


Yes, but not only with intellect. The issues 
under discussion surpass mere intellectual 
investigation.
Please read some of my and others' recent and 
past postings to obtain a clearer idea.


You ask, "Should we study letters of Mahatamas 
after all as they were mostly confidential 
letters to A.P. Sinnett?"


This is indeed a very good and moot point, one 
deserving of considerable contemplation. 

There are those  who believe it wrong to even read 
the letters for the reason you have stated. 
Others take a different view, sometimes for 
differing reasons.


In the Mahatma Letters to A P Sinnett, the Mahatma 
KH writes, "I lay no restrictions upon your making 
use of anything I may have written to you or Mr. 
Hume, having full confidence in your tact and 
judgment as to what should be printed and how 
it should be presented. " 
L 15; Chronology of George Linton and Virginia Hanson


However in letter 128 he writes, "My letters must 
not be published in the manner you suggest?" "The 
letters, in short, were not written for publication 
or public comment upon them, but for private use, 
and neither M. nor I will ever give our consent to 
see them thus handled."


Whilst this appears unequivocal, this letter was 
written in the context of protecting Mr Sinnett 
and the Adyar Theosophical Society from further 
undesirable effects after the troubles of the 
"Kiddle incident." I refer you to the full quote 
below. *


The letters were and continue to be published and are 
therefore now in the public domain. 


This being the case, I believe Theosophical students 
should read and study them, if only for the sake of 
understanding a little more of who these Mahatmas were, 
such as is possible to know, and understanding what 
they said, such as is possible to understand; as well 
as perhaps protecting them and their teachings from 
the potential of false representation. 


After all, it was only after their general publication 
that actual proof became available of Bishop Leadbeater 
and Dr Besant lying so consistently and thoroughly about 
their contact with the Mahatmas and their superiors. **    


I further believe the letters should be treated with 
utmost respect and only in a Theosophical study 
setting. 
This being one of those places it seems 
appropriate to use the wisdom and compassion of 
their words to elucidate their apparent position 
on certain matters.


I do however greatly respect the principled position 
others take in not reading the letters. 
We must perhaps leave it to karma to determine 
our respective fates.


You write, "I belive LCC brings good esoteric views 
to christian religion.
And after all it supports all religions, but mostly 
so called wisdom-religion, theosophy. Maha-Cohan has 
also said in one of his talks that theosophy will be a 
corner-stone for all the religions."


With respect, this is not what the Mahachohan said. 


He said, "?the Theosophical Society was chosen as 
the corner stone, the foundation of the future 
religion of humanity." Letters from the Masters of 
the Wisdom 1st Series. Appendix 2; The Mahatma Letters 
to A P Sinnett; chronology of George Linton and 
Virginia Hanson


Whilst we may ordinarily dismiss your pluralisation 
of the word "religion" as insignificant, it actually 
carries particular significance. 


The Mahatmas and their Chiefs were attempting to 
reintroduce a particular spiritual philosophy based 
in Unity and inclusiveness, a genuine "re ligare", 
or return to our source.  


Indeed, the inclusive first object of the Adyar 
Theosophical Society states; To form a nucleus of 
the Universal Brotherhood of humanity without 
distinction of race, creed, sex, caste or colour.   


The major religions of the west at that time, 
Judaism, Islam and Christianity, were rooted in 
exclusivity and believed in the superiority of 
their respective faith. They also believed, and 
some still believe, in the superiority and 
exclusivity of the priesthood to make contact with 
"God." 


Likewise in the Liberal Catholic church, the 
so-called "theosophical church", the Bishop or 
priest is somewhat exclusive and superior in that 
only he can draw down the "Christ energies" and 
distribute this to his flock. Moreover, according 
to Bishop Leadbeater's teaching this can only be 
done by a man, a woman's vehicles being occultly 
unsuitable. 


This hardly represents the Unity and inclusiveness 
of genuine Theosophy.


So we can see, these expressions of religion were 
quite obviously not the "wisdom-religion, theosophy" 
to which the Mahachohan was alluding as you suggest 
and have probably been told.


This is not to say there is no value in the religions 
of the day, including the Liberal Catholic church. 
Their teachings help produce many fine human beings 
from all walks of life. 
In terms of compassionate action alone they perform a 
vital role for many people throughout the world. 


But from my perspective, their superiority based, 
hierarchical philosophy and ritualistic practices are, 
in significant part, not representative of the 
spiritual philosophy of the genuine Mahatmas and 
their Theosophy. 

However these do tend to be represented in the 
pseudo-theosophy of Bishop Leadbeater.

Thank you again for your heartfelt comments and 
involvement.

Shanti
Nigel


* "My letters must not be published, in the manner 
you suggest, but on the contrary, if you [would] 
save Djual K. trouble, copies of some should be 
sent to the Literary Committee at Adyar ? about 
which Damodar has written to you ? so that with 
the assistance of S.T.K. Charya, Djual K., Subba 
Row and the Secret Committee (from which H.P.B. 
was purposely excluded by us to avoid new suspicions 
and calumnies) they might be able to utilise the 
information for the realization of the object with 
which the Committee was started, as explained by 
Damodar in the letter written by him under orders. 
It is neither new "Kiddle developments" that I seek 
to avoid, nor criticism directed against my 
personality, which indeed can hardly be reached; 
but I rather try to save yourself and Society 
from new troubles which would be serious this time. 
The letters, in short, were not written for 
publication or public comment upon them, but 
for private use, and neither M. nor I will ever 
give our consent to see them thus handled."


** Please see  "Theosophy Versus Neo Theosophy"  
http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/thomas/index.htm  



--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Jokela Petri <jokelap@...> wrote:
>
> 
> Have you ever been in any of the LCC´s masses after all?
> Or are you just pondering over this intellectually - comparing 
words of 
> Mahatama
> to someone else´s ords? Should we study letters of Mahatamas after 
all 
> as they were mostly
> confidential letters to A.P. Sinnett? At least we should not make 
> Mahatma letters
> to be accurate dogma. Mahatma himself was not perfect all the time 
when 
> writing them.
> Also KH said that adept its the one who does have all his occult 
powers 
> in use,
> so therefore he is fallible in other times and that they cannot 
keep up 
> their occult
> powers in work all the time just like atlethic cannot train his 
muscles 
> all the time.
> 
> I belive LCC brings good esoteric views to christian religion.
> And after all it supports all religions, but mostly so called
> wisdom-religion, theosophy. Maha-Cohan has also said in one of his 
talks
> that theosophy will be a corner-stone for all the religions. So I 
belive 
> it is a some
> kind of a key to every religion, to their esoteric side and to open 
> heartedness
> for all world religions.
> 
> All works for free in LCC. Priesthood and so on are mainly in a 
position 
> where one must take some responsibility of some duties. Reading 
Bible or 
> lines which they go through in mass should be pretty enlightening 
for 
> one who studies things open heartedly.
> 
> So if there is a place in the world for all the churches we have, 
so 
> isn´t there a room for LCC, which is must closer to truth. 
Acttually 
> they ask everyone to find the truth by themselves. So, LCC is a 
place 
> where people are seeking the truth. What´s wrong with it?
> 
> Sorry for taking apart for your conversation.
> 
> Peace!
>