Theos-Talk Archives (February 2008 Message tt00199)

Dear Morten

Thank you for tying all these issues together 
in a Theosophical framework.

The urgency of the moment requires an urgency 
to remind ourselves of who and what we really are.

As you mention, mere thoughts are insufficient. 

A change of consciousness is required.

 
And this can be achieved by recognising our 
innate and intrinsic worth as individual aspects 
of Absolute Consciousness.

Regards
Nigel


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-
theosophy@...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> I wil say: 
> 
> No one of you are average. We aught really not to think like this.
> The Divine is within all of you right here and now!
> The Divine is beyond thoughts.
> 
> The doctrines of unity cannot be grasped by mere intellect, another 
level of thinking or being have to be reached, or developed.
> 
> It is not so important what I think or "consider" of my self. I am 
just a friend, as far as I am able to be one.
> The Masters are also our friends. To "consider" something is maybe 
sometimes only of small value to talk about.
> 
> - - - - - - -
> 
> I will say.
> Face the Devil. Follow the Divine. Fight to the end. And Finish the 
Game.
> The Devil can be known or "known" for what it is. That is my view 
and knowledge.
> 
> - - - - - - -
> 
> I just have to say something about Climate Change. I do not hope I 
scare you too much with the following.
> I am not aware of how much you are following in on the latest 
science reports on what is going on. Several experts are now saying 
that the United Nations are way too cautious in the examinations of 
the dangers of Climate Change. And this is not new. But it is new, 
when the reports arrive from several independent studies, and when 
there are several of them. Some of the latest I read was from a 
danish named Rasmus Tonboe, who is at the Danish Meterological 
Institute or something saying that his satellite examinations was 
telling him, that just about 25% of the old core ice on the North 
Pole had - during just one single year - been turned into loose one 
year old ice. It is gone he says, melted if you like!
> If this is true, the ordinary official predictions might be way too 
omptimistic. And at least a one meter sea level rise might occur 
within the year 2040.  A scientist named James Hansen, who is from 
NASA talks about not only 20-60 cm in this century, but perhaps 
several metres!
> There is more. More than 40 % of the oceans are said to suffer from 
pollution! This number was written in the magazine Science very 
recently. The report was made by american, canadian and british 
researchers from several universities in Boston. 
> 
> I am living in Denmark and Greenland is a part of our country. 
During the summer 2007 science discovered, that the ice was melting 4 
times more ice, than it did 10 years ago. It is the lowest level 
known so far in Greenland. 
> 
> If all this continues will will dead 100% within a few years 
discover a changed planet with 100 of millions of refugees. Lack of 
doctors, nurses, aid and food. Deseases of various kinds. Polluted 
drinking water and flooding of a great number of homes, libraries, 
historical artifacts, cities and towns. And of course a lot of dead 
persons, who will have to reincarnate at the proper places, and times.
> 
> I hate to talk about this. But the realities look too grim to just 
keep ignoring telling you all about it at this place. But, I guess 
humanity get what it ask for.
> 
> I know, some of you are following in on the issue. I would like to 
hear what you views are on the issue and the appearnt problem of real 
humanistic leadership right now on this planet. The British being 
sensible and wellinformed most of the time seem to be the country who 
take this issue more serious than any other country at the moment.
> 
> 
> I will tell you, that I have had glimpses and messages more than 
one time about, that the Ice is melting, and it will change the ways 
we live on this planet. I was told about the issue as far back as 
1980. The various countries will have to help each other much more, 
just like when the Indonesian Tsunami occured. The various countries 
will be forced to forget, at least to a certain visible degree, their 
pity diferrences, and stand up together seeking to create harmony 
between human activities and the ecological system on this planet.
> 
> So I do not need, that we all go around saying to ourselves, that 
we are average, when we need to wake up and and face the truth about 
who we really are, and face what we really are deep within.
> 
> 
> I do hope, that helped you all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M. Sufilight
> 
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Cass Silva 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 12:42 PM
>   Subject: Re: Fw: Theos-World Distortions and diversions?
> 
> 
>   I am. What do you consider yourself?
>   Cass
> 
>   Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@...> wrote:
> 
>   Are you average beings?
> 
>   I would say, that Master is not agreeing on this.
>   But, that is just my view.
>   ;-)
> 
>   M. Sufilight
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Cass Silva 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 6:27 AM
>   Subject: Re: Fw: Theos-World Distortions and diversions?
> 
>   Not to us average beings
>   Cass
> 
>   Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@...> wrote:
> 
>   So the Great White Lodge has no value?
> 
>   M. Sufilight
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: MKR 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 9:30 PM
>   Subject: Re: Fw: Theos-World Distortions and diversions?
> 
>   It is a free world and each can come to theri own conclusion and 
stay with
>   it.
> 
>   I am not a scholar; just an ordinary student. No organization can 
lead
>   anyone for self development. All they can do is do the mechanical 
stuff. The
>   real work, I think, the individual has to do it himself/herself.
> 
>   mkr
> 
>   On 2/16/08, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@...> wrote:
>   >
>   > I feel absolutely free to disagree with you. "Organisations" as 
a word
>   > covers a lot of content in its definition. Saying that the 
great white lodge
>   > cannot help and benefit humanity, and that only J. Krishnamurti 
can and will
>   > is just about the most wrong conclusion one can get into ones 
head!
>   >
>   > Do you really think, that Master Morya, H. P. Blavatsky, Damodar
>   > Mavalankar are no more?
>   > Really. How far are you prepared to go to put the Old Lady and 
Master
>   > Morya down the toilet?
>   >
>   > But, of course I must be misunderstanding you, because you 
sound like an
>   > intelligent scholar.
>   >
>   > M. Sufilight
>   >
>   > ----- Original Message -----
>   > From: MKR
>   > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
>   > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 4:33 PM
>   > Subject: Re: Fw: Theos-World Distortions and diversions?
>   >
>   > Thanks.
>   > I have said this many times.
>   > One of the lessons that one learns from K's disbandment of 
organizations
>   > is
>   > the need to set ourselves free to inquire as organizations 
cannot take us
>   > to
>   > enlightenment.
>   >
>   > mkr
>   >
>   > On 2/16/08, Shel Steijl <shelley@... <shelley%40sai.co.za>> 
wrote:
>   > >
>   > > Well said, MKR.
>   > > Shel
>   > >
>   > > ----- Original Message -----
>   > > From: MKR
>   > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%
40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
>   > > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 3:15 PM
>   > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Distortions and diversions?
>   > >
>   > > Any open minded person need to keep certain facts in mind.
>   > >
>   > > Organizations are great when it comes to mechanical tasks 
such as
>   > > publishing
>   > > and re-publishing and arranging for meetings and gatherings 
etc. Once it
>   > > goes beyond that, they cannot lead one to self-discovery 
(which you have
>   > > to
>   > > do it yourself unfettered
>   > > by any preconceived ideas or notions). Once there is an 
organization,
>   > > there is the bureaucracy and the need for group conformity. 
Once you
>   > > are in the group for a long time, it is very difficult to 
think
>   > > outside the box. The other complicating fact is that many
>   > > organizations own a lot of very valuable real estate
>   > > with the ownership comes other headaches and problems that 
may interfere
>   > > with the distribution of teachings. Spirituality and property 
and money
>   > do
>   > > not mix well.
>   > >
>   > > It should be recalled that during the early days of TS, there 
was very
>   > > little money. Even the Adyar estate was purchased by 
borrowing money
>   > with
>   > > the support of some active theosophists. The lack of money 
helped the
>   > > founders to concentrate on spreading theosophy than having to 
worry
>   > about
>   > > managing money.
>   > >
>   > > Looking at some of the past litigation that organizations 
have got
>   > > themselves into, you will find that property and money are at 
their root
>   > > and
>   > > in all these litigations, it was the attorneys who came out 
winners.
>   > >
>   > > Organizations have their place and let us not over emphasize 
their role
>   > in
>   > > personal development and progress and spirituality.
>   > >
>   > > mkr
>   > >
>   > > On 2/16/08, nhcareyta <nhcareyta@... <nhcareyta%
40yahoo.com.au><nhcareyta%40yahoo.com.au>>
>   > > wrote:
>   > > >
>   > > > Dear mkr
>   > > >
>   > > > Thank you for your comment.
>   > > >
>   > > > You write, "If Pablo takes time to read all the
>   > > > past archives of various theos lists, he may
>   > > > come out with a different opinion."
>   > > >
>   > > > I really hope that he might indeed read the past
>   > > > archives and other available literature with a
>   > > > truly open mind. However I suspect this might
>   > > > be difficult for him.
>   > > >
>   > > > As an ex-Adyar Society apologist I can attest
>   > > > to the difficulties faced by one thoroughly
>   > > > absorbed in the organisation and its powerful
>   > > > mindset.
>   > > >
>   > > > I was exposed to some of the issues of Bishop
>   > > > Leadbeater and Dr Besant whilst President of
>   > > > the local Lodge but dismissed it as muckraking.
>   > > > It was only whilst living at the Adyar Society
>   > > > headquarters in India for a few months that I
>   > > > was able to conduct more thorough research. The
>   > > > enormity of their betrayal of "original"
>   > > > Theosophy and the extraordinary and all-important
>   > > > deleterious far-reaching effects of their mindset
>   > > > upon unsuspecting and uninformed members became
>   > > > increasingly apparent, to the extent I could no
>   > > > longer support the organisation. This despite
>   > > > recognising some value in its continuance and
>   > > > the many selfless and hard working people among
>   > > > its membership.
>   > > >
>   > > > This mindset and the pervasive manner in which
>   > > > it works can destroy free thinking which so
>   > > > often leads to blind and stubborn resistance
>   > > > to truth.
>   > > >
>   > > > Regards
>   > > > Nigel
>   > > >
>   > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%
40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%
40yahoogroups.com>, MKR
>   > > > <mkr777@> wrote:
>   > > > >
>   > > > > If Pablo takes time to read all the past archives of 
various theos
>   > > > lists, he
>   > > > > may come out with a different opinion. Archives have a 
lot of
>   > > > material you
>   > > > > will not find anywhere else. This is due to the fact that 
the lists
>   > > > are
>   > > > > outside the control of any organization and is totally 
unmoderated.
>   > > > This is
>   > > > > something that many organizations used to control flow of 
info to
>   > > > its
>   > > > > adherents and is finding it very hard to come to grip
>   > > > > with. Anyone will also notice that rarely one finds well 
known
>   > > > leaders
>   > > > > in the hierarchy of organizations participate in any of 
them, even
>   > > > > though they may lurk to see what is going on.
>   > > > > A paradox in the internet age.
>   > > > >
>   > > > > mkr
>   > > > >
>   > > > >
>   > > > > On 2/15/08, nhcareyta <nhcareyta@> wrote:
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > Dear Pablo
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > Recently you wrote, "In this circle it is fashionable
>   > > > > > to criticize Besant and Leadbeater for whatever
>   > > > > > they did, and most of the times the statements
>   > > > > > are unsupported."
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > On two occasions I have asked, "Would you kindly
>   > > > > > define your term "unsupported. And apart from
>   > > > > > the current claim by Cass, would you also be
>   > > > > > so kind as to show where "unsupported statements"
>   > > > > > have been made."
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > Unless you are in process, it appears you are
>   > > > > > disinclined to reply to my questions.
>   > > > > > Given that you have subsequently responded to
>   > > > > > other contributors to this discussion, I will
>   > > > > > assume certain things.
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > Your word "unsupported" may mean
>   > > > > > not substantiated, meaning groundless and
>   > > > > > baseless.
>   > > > > > If this is correct then you have failed to
>   > > > > > demonstrate this with any examples.
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > It must therefore be assumed that you have
>   > > > > > little or no evidence to support your claim.
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > In light of the above, I ask you to reconsider
>   > > > > > your apparently derogatory words to Cass to
>   > > > > > determine whether they might actually refer to
>   > > > > > yourself, "It's interesting to see how our mind
>   > > > > > plays games. "Consistency" is not its main
>   > > > > > feature..."
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > I still look forward to examples where unsubstantiated
>   > > > > > statements have been made about Bishop Leadbeater
>   > > > > > and Dr Besant in this forum that we may discuss them
>   > > > > > objectively and without bias.
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > Regards
>   > > > > > Nigel
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > >
>   > > > >
>   > > > >
>   > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   > > > >
>   > > >
>   > > >
>   > > >
>   > >
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