Theos-Talk Archives (February 2008 Message tt00177)

To all readers


My views are:


Cass wrote:
"K's pathless path is through inner awareness leading to self expansion. It is the solitary path but the end result is the same.
Unless I have misunderstood the teachings."


I have tried several times to explain, that they, (the J. Krishnamurti's), cannot avoid walking the path or pathless path on this planet and its five lower levels. Those who through meditative isolation seek to "break in" so to speak their version of an "unthinkable god" (just like a Jesuit "break in" their version of a "jesus")  will be able to reach a state of a certain kind of Nirvana and gain much knowledge. But is is a selfish Nirvana. They become perfect Pratyeka Buddhists. There are several variations of this state of being. But it is not a real Nirvana, because they have through isolation NOT learned the difference between good and evil on one or more of the five or seven lower levels. This is important.

It is the knowledge we have which tells us, that that you simply can NOT skip various levels of development or learning, which make me say, that you are in error in your views, and many others as well. This is vital to understand. (Am I really the only one you have this view? There a several Buddhistic texts referring to this view. Others say something else, but are wrong.) 

We are here to learn to be Masters. J. Krishnamurti almost said, that we do not need to walk the path like this. Honest Chelaship was it seems a dead planet to him. And that is where I disagree with him. HPB also tells about these issues in the Collected Writings where she at a certain place refers to Buddhistic texts. The Law of Karma make it a necessity for you to walk all levels in life and learn the difference between good and evil. (Although there as always might be a very few exceptions due to certain Karmic issues often of a more cosmological kind.)

The Doctrine J. Krishnamurti sort of failed to promote in a precise manner was as far as I am concerned:
The Seekers After Truth live in the World, but are not of the World. Either a physical world or various non-physical worlds. Their path or pathless path is a path in solitude as well as the quite opposite. And they and we cannot escape either of them on the path or pathless path.


But, quite important. Of course, all seekers have to from time to time meditate in isolation so to speak. Often at the beginning stages people meditate in solitude, sort of like J. Krihsnamurti recommends. Later they help the world while they meditate on the "unthinkable" at the same time. But, saying that meditation in isolation is the only real thing, is a false teaching. People learn and do even today meditate during the day while they at the same time live their daily lifes, although a part of their conscioousness of course is occupied with the daily activities, the other part meditates. Something, which of course are draining their efforts of meditation a bit.

And as far as I remember HPB mentioned, that there even exist something as bad Dhyan Chohans. Even though "bad" on that level is not the same as on the astral-mental level.
So I guess we are in for the ride, where we need to understand the difference between good and evil.

Well, these were my views.


M. Sufilight


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Cass Silva 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 6:35 AM
  Subject: Re: Fw: Theos-World Distortions and diversions?


  Who said anything about unbrotherly Morten? The Great White Brotherhood will continue to function for humanity whether humanity is aware of it or not, and I would say that in 99.99percent humanity is not aware. As far as I knew the White Lodge works with and through the Lords of Karma and their emissiaries, to the point where they cannot interfere even with the Shadow brothers. 

  Their are many paths Morten, the path of the mystic is entirely different to the gnani path, but one doesn't surpass the other, the goal is the same. K's pathless path is through inner awareness leading to self expansion. It is the solitary path but the end result is the same.
  Unless I have misunderstood the teachings.

  Cass

  Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> wrote:
  To all readers

  My views are:

  So now we have a Theosophist(?) calling the FGreat White Lodge unbrotherly?
  What is next?

  The Great Withe Lodge is subject to the Law of Karma like all in the universe.
  Saying that the Great Withe Lodge is unbrotherly will not make you more wise than its members are.
  I will recommend, that you think about this.

  The Great Withe Lodge is no ordinary group or organisation working together. They are on a level
  of consciousness far beyond ordinary human comprehension. They are organised through real Altruism. 
  And Altruism is so often misunderstood by beginner theosophists as being emotional arousements.
  Saying that those who are superior to you in compassion are not compassionate will not make their compassion go away. (Of course some of you might be way beyond the level of the Dyhan Chohan's, but I will have to confirm the truth about this first.)

  The Great Withe Lodge is of course not without faults.
  But saying, if you do that, - that you can walk in the PathlessLand of J. Krishnamurti without running into the members of the Great White Lodge is the same as endorsing the Pratyeka Buddhist pathless path. And H. P. Blavatsky never agreed upon following this path, because it is not a real spiritual path. That is also my own view. Sooner or later one will have to learn the lesson of working together with other people. The Law of Karma is a real issue.

  The Pratyeka Buddhist's do not understand the difference between good and evil, on various levels of consciousness, and they have a tendency to work like the uncompassionate Dugpa's.

  Being truely compassionate is a huge lesson in life.

  But, these are just my views.

  M. Sufilight

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Martin 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 9:47 PM
  Subject: Re: Fw: Theos-World Distortions and diversions?

  It has value no for people who are to be tested by
  their dugpa's, only after they went through the
  testing they have value. So before you even get a
  glimpse of what the White Brotherhood is about, you
  are already being tested. They only support their own
  kind, which sounds not very brotherhoodlylike btw...

  --- Morten Nymann Olesen
  <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> wrote:

  > 
  > So the Great White Lodge has no value?
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > M. Sufilight
  > 
  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > From: MKR 
  > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 9:30 PM
  > Subject: Re: Fw: Theos-World Distortions and
  > diversions?
  > 
  > 
  > It is a free world and each can come to theri own
  > conclusion and stay with
  > it.
  > 
  > I am not a scholar; just an ordinary student. No
  > organization can lead
  > anyone for self development. All they can do is do
  > the mechanical stuff. The
  > real work, I think, the individual has to do it
  > himself/herself.
  > 
  > mkr
  > 
  > On 2/16/08, Morten Nymann Olesen
  > <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> wrote:
  > >
  > > I feel absolutely free to disagree with you.
  > "Organisations" as a word
  > > covers a lot of content in its definition.
  > Saying that the great white lodge
  > > cannot help and benefit humanity, and that only
  > J. Krishnamurti can and will
  > > is just about the most wrong conclusion one can
  > get into ones head!
  > >
  > > Do you really think, that Master Morya, H. P.
  > Blavatsky, Damodar
  > > Mavalankar are no more?
  > > Really. How far are you prepared to go to put
  > the Old Lady and Master
  > > Morya down the toilet?
  > >
  > > But, of course I must be misunderstanding you,
  > because you sound like an
  > > intelligent scholar.
  > >
  > > M. Sufilight
  > >
  > > ----- Original Message -----
  > > From: MKR
  > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  > <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
  > > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 4:33 PM
  > > Subject: Re: Fw: Theos-World Distortions and
  > diversions?
  > >
  > > Thanks.
  > > I have said this many times.
  > > One of the lessons that one learns from K's
  > disbandment of organizations
  > > is
  > > the need to set ourselves free to inquire as
  > organizations cannot take us
  > > to
  > > enlightenment.
  > >
  > > mkr
  > >
  > > On 2/16/08, Shel Steijl <shelley@sai.co.za
  > <shelley%40sai.co.za>> wrote:
  > > >
  > > > Well said, MKR.
  > > > Shel
  > > >
  > > > ----- Original Message -----
  > > > From: MKR
  > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  >
  <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
  > > > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 3:15 PM
  > > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Distortions and
  > diversions?
  > > >
  > > > Any open minded person need to keep certain
  > facts in mind.
  > > >
  > > > Organizations are great when it comes to
  > mechanical tasks such as
  > > > publishing
  > > > and re-publishing and arranging for meetings
  > and gatherings etc. Once it
  > > > goes beyond that, they cannot lead one to
  > self-discovery (which you have
  > > > to
  > > > do it yourself unfettered
  > > > by any preconceived ideas or notions). Once
  > there is an organization,
  > > > there is the bureaucracy and the need for
  > group conformity. Once you
  > > > are in the group for a long time, it is very
  > difficult to think
  > > > outside the box. The other complicating fact
  > is that many
  > > > organizations own a lot of very valuable real
  > estate
  > > > with the ownership comes other headaches and
  > problems that may interfere
  > > > with the distribution of teachings.
  > Spirituality and property and money
  > > do
  > > > not mix well.
  > > >
  > > > It should be recalled that during the early
  > days of TS, there was very
  > > > little money. Even the Adyar estate was
  > purchased by borrowing money
  > > with
  > > > the support of some active theosophists. The
  > lack of money helped the
  > > > founders to concentrate on spreading theosophy
  > than having to worry
  > > about
  > > > managing money.
  > > >
  > > > Looking at some of the past litigation that
  > organizations have got
  > > > themselves into, you will find that property
  > and money are at their root
  > > > and
  > > > in all these litigations, it was the attorneys
  > who came out winners.
  > > >
  > > > Organizations have their place and let us not
  > over emphasize their role
  > > in
  > > > personal development and progress and
  > spirituality.
  > > >
  > > > mkr
  > > >
  > > > On 2/16/08, nhcareyta <nhcareyta@yahoo.com.au
  >
  <nhcareyta%40yahoo.com.au><nhcareyta%40yahoo.com.au>>
  > > > wrote:
  > > > >
  > > > > Dear mkr
  > > > >
  > > > > Thank you for your comment.
  > > > >
  > > > > You write, "If Pablo takes time to read all
  > the
  > > > > past archives of various theos lists, he may
  > > > > come out with a different opinion."
  > > > >
  > > > > I really hope that he might indeed read the
  > past
  > > > > archives and other available literature with
  > a
  > > > > truly open mind. However I suspect this
  > might
  > > > > be difficult for him.
  > > > >
  > > > > As an ex-Adyar Society apologist I can
  > attest
  > > > > to the difficulties faced by one thoroughly
  > > > > absorbed in the organisation and its
  > powerful
  > > > > mindset.
  > > > >
  > > > > I was exposed to some of the issues of
  > Bishop
  > > > > Leadbeater and Dr Besant whilst President of
  > > > > the local Lodge but dismissed it as
  > muckraking.
  > > > > It was only whilst living at the Adyar
  > Society
  > > > > headquarters in India for a few months that
  > I
  > > > > was able to conduct more thorough research.
  > The
  > > > > enormity of their betrayal of "original"
  > > > > Theosophy and the extraordinary and
  > all-important
  > > > > deleterious far-reaching effects of their
  > mindset
  > > > > upon unsuspecting and uninformed members
  > became
  > > > > increasingly apparent, to the extent I could
  > no
  > > > > longer support the organisation. This
  > despite
  > > > > recognising some value in its continuance
  > and
  > > > > the many selfless and hard working people
  > among
  > > > > its membership.
  > > > >
  > > > > This mindset and the pervasive manner in
  > which
  > 
  === message truncated ===

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