Theos-Talk Archives (February 2008 Message tt00148)

Dear mkr

Wise, insightful and accurate words indeed.

Regards
Nigel


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR <mkr777@...> wrote:
>
> Any open minded person need to keep certain facts in mind.
> 
> Organizations are great when it comes to mechanical tasks such as 
publishing
> and re-publishing and arranging for meetings and gatherings etc. 
Once it
> goes beyond that, they cannot lead one to self-discovery (which you 
have to
> do it yourself unfettered
> by any preconceived ideas or notions). Once there is an 
organization,
> there is the bureaucracy and the need for group conformity. Once you
> are in the group for a long time, it is very difficult to think
> outside the box. The other complicating fact is that many
> organizations own a lot of very valuable real estate
> with the ownership comes other headaches and problems that may 
interfere
> with the distribution of teachings. Spirituality and property and 
money do
> not mix well.
> 
> It should be recalled that during the early days of TS, there was 
very
> little money. Even the Adyar estate was purchased by borrowing 
money with
> the support of some active theosophists. The lack of money helped 
the
> founders to concentrate on spreading theosophy than having to worry 
about
> managing money.
> 
> Looking at some of the past litigation that organizations have got
> themselves into, you will find that property and money are at their 
root and
> in all these litigations, it was the attorneys who came out winners.
> 
> Organizations have their place and let us not over emphasize their 
role in
> personal development and progress and spirituality.
> 
> mkr
> 
> On 2/16/08, nhcareyta <nhcareyta@...> wrote:
> >
> > Dear mkr
> >
> > Thank you for your comment.
> >
> > You write, "If Pablo takes time to read all the
> > past archives of various theos lists, he may
> > come out with a different opinion."
> >
> > I really hope that he might indeed read the past
> > archives and other available literature with a
> > truly open mind. However I suspect this might
> > be difficult for him.
> >
> > As an ex-Adyar Society apologist I can attest
> > to the difficulties faced by one thoroughly
> > absorbed in the organisation and its powerful
> > mindset.
> >
> > I was exposed to some of the issues of Bishop
> > Leadbeater and Dr Besant whilst President of
> > the local Lodge but dismissed it as muckraking.
> > It was only whilst living at the Adyar Society
> > headquarters in India for a few months that I
> > was able to conduct more thorough research. The
> > enormity of their betrayal of "original"
> > Theosophy and the extraordinary and all-important
> > deleterious far-reaching effects of their mindset
> > upon unsuspecting and uninformed members became
> > increasingly apparent, to the extent I could no
> > longer support the organisation. This despite
> > recognising some value in its continuance and
> > the many selfless and hard working people among
> > its membership.
> >
> > This mindset and the pervasive manner in which
> > it works can destroy free thinking which so
> > often leads to blind and stubborn resistance
> > to truth.
> >
> > Regards
> > Nigel
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>, 
MKR
> > <mkr777@> wrote:
> > >
> > > If Pablo takes time to read all the past archives of various 
theos
> > lists, he
> > > may come out with a different opinion. Archives have a lot of
> > material you
> > > will not find anywhere else. This is due to the fact that the 
lists
> > are
> > > outside the control of any organization and is totally 
unmoderated.
> > This is
> > > something that many organizations used to control flow of info 
to
> > its
> > > adherents and is finding it very hard to come to grip
> > > with. Anyone will also notice that rarely one finds well known
> > leaders
> > > in the hierarchy of organizations participate in any of them, 
even
> > > though they may lurk to see what is going on.
> > > A paradox in the internet age.
> > >
> > > mkr
> > >
> > >
> > > On 2/15/08, nhcareyta <nhcareyta@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear Pablo
> > > >
> > > > Recently you wrote, "In this circle it is fashionable
> > > > to criticize Besant and Leadbeater for whatever
> > > > they did, and most of the times the statements
> > > > are unsupported."
> > > >
> > > > On two occasions I have asked, "Would you kindly
> > > > define your term "unsupported. And apart from
> > > > the current claim by Cass, would you also be
> > > > so kind as to show where "unsupported statements"
> > > > have been made."
> > > >
> > > > Unless you are in process, it appears you are
> > > > disinclined to reply to my questions.
> > > > Given that you have subsequently responded to
> > > > other contributors to this discussion, I will
> > > > assume certain things.
> > > >
> > > > Your word "unsupported" may mean
> > > > not substantiated, meaning groundless and
> > > > baseless.
> > > > If this is correct then you have failed to
> > > > demonstrate this with any examples.
> > > >
> > > > It must therefore be assumed that you have
> > > > little or no evidence to support your claim.
> > > >
> > > > In light of the above, I ask you to reconsider
> > > > your apparently derogatory words to Cass to
> > > > determine whether they might actually refer to
> > > > yourself, "It's interesting to see how our mind
> > > > plays games. "Consistency" is not its main
> > > > feature..."
> > > >
> > > > I still look forward to examples where unsubstantiated
> > > > statements have been made about Bishop Leadbeater
> > > > and Dr Besant in this forum that we may discuss them
> > > > objectively and without bias.
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > Nigel
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> > 
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>