Theos-Talk Archives (September 2007 Message tt00145)

Thanks for the follow up Frank. Unfortunately, the link is in german.  Are you saying that Besant chose Jesus (Christianity) over Buddhism - Buddha ( Ancient Wisdom)? HPB mentioned that the story of Jesus is the story of all great avatars, repeated, every two thousand years or so.  How would buddhism have been a threat in 1930?  Unless you are saying that esoteric buddhism was being squashed for exoteric catholocism?  I don't get it?
   
  Cass

Frank Reitemeyer <dzyan@online.de> wrote:
          According to master mind Dr. Christan Lindtner the great beast 66 is identified.
It is just a Greek translation of Sanskrit sad-dhar-ma-pun-da-rî-ka-sû-tram, which means:
true law of the White Lotus - which is a symbol of the Buddha, of HPB or thinking man.

Compare Lindtner's astounishing rationale in his German preface to the important Richard Garbe 1914 reprint:
http://www.jesusisbuddha.com/vorwort.html

The use of the philogical key is the death blow for any dogmatic, fanatic and blind believe theology, whether in Christianity, Judaism or Islam.

BTW, this in-depth-research in Germany about Buddhism and the search for source of all religions (Ur-Religion) around 1900 was according to am American press article the reason, why WWI broke out. I have the German translation before me; the article appeared on 7 Febr 1921 in the Illinois Staats-Zeitung, which is in re-tranlation something like Illinois National (or States) Newspaper. From that point of view, WWI would have been a hidden religious war between Christianity and Buddhism or between Jesus and Buddha.

Annie Besant then would have in 1914 been taken side against the White Lotus, following the 1870 London Masonic Lodge order to destroy Germany, which was repeated in the 1889 declaration of the Paris Lodge at their 100th anniversary. If that is right that Besant was involved rather in political machinations as in ancient wisdom it would give the rationale why Theosophy became in Germany around 1930 a code word for war, after Katherine Tingley's appeals of 1926 to re-unite in Nuremberg were ignored. Strange how karma works.

The irony is, that they do not learn their lesson. They destroy the archives, play ostrich and appeal only to their childish emotions of a self-hypnotic maya world of paradise and wait for the coming of the Masters. All others cannot be regarded as theosophists!!
FR

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Cass Silva 
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 4:38 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Re: Article: Rational Atheism

Leon as an afterthought, could the number 666 relate to cosmic metaphor e.g. in the Sumerian Babylonian thought Annunake is 600, Anu is 60 and Man 6, making up the 666 and dislodging the anti-christ?
Cass

leonmaurer@aol.com wrote: 
Michael,

Like the assumptions (you call, "speculations") -- which you claim are 
unobservable in "space-time reality" -- your literal anthropomorphized Biblical 
commentaries are equally speculative interpretations of scriptural metaphors, 
allegories, symbols and glyphs that also have no actual physical reality... Yet, 
do have direct relationship to the primal beginning of the Cosmos -- ages 
before physical Mankind appeared on Earth -- If only we could see the actual 
reality such metaphors and allegories picture symbolically.

Rather than make speculative literal interpretations of them, we need to 
study Kabbala to understand the real (scientific) meaning of those Biblical 
commentaries. According to that Kabbalistic view, based directly on the 
experiential knowledge of Moses, who was an "initiate" of the Egyptian Priests' secret 
or sacred knowledge, and the first "Freemason") -- the first MAN (Adam Kadmon) 
is the initial spiritually conscious nature of the Universe (actually the 
"Solar System as a direct reflection of it, that explains the Egyptian "Solar 
God") who ultimately transmuted (alchemically?) into physical Mankind (Adam and 
Eve) on Earth. Therefore, we could assume from this, that the paradisiacal 
"Garden of Eden? in the Bible could be the initial abode of Adam Kadmon 
(presumedly androgynous before the split into male and female) -- before the fall... 
Which, aso interpreted scientifically, could very well be the fall from spirit 
to matter (or spiritual substance to physical substance). See: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Kadmon

>From a hypothetical scientific viewpoint, the symbolism you quoted could 
actually refer to the fractal descent of the first spiritual conscious beings -- 
i.e., the first 2+4+8 "sons" (Suns) of universal MIND (Manas-Mahatma-Man) that 
would have come into existence during the initial HOT (fiery) expansion, and 
fractal involutional descent at the primal beginning (of the Big Bang). All 
this occurring in perfect symmetry at the first instant of metric time. 

In other words, this primal spherical triune monad, or initial field 
(vehicle) of cosmic consciousness, would be the initial condition of the Cosmic mind 
prior to its (fiery) FALL (through fractal involution) into phenomenal physical 
matter and its ultimate objective forms (after initial inflation and breaking 
of symmetry). 

Thus, incidentally, explaining the "'Fall' of Man" in the Bible, as well as 
the apparent duality between what you call "observer consciousness" and "self 
reflective consciousness"... Which I see as (1) singular Cosmic or primal 
consciousness and (2) multiply separated individualized consciousness... Both being 
identical, with respect to awareness, will, and cause of qualia, and 
inseparable at the fundamental primal SPACE or zero-point of conscious experience. 
Accordingly, we could know what it is to experience being a bat by analogy and 
correspondence. We see and locate holographically by sight and sound 
(binocularly and binaurally) the same way they do by sound alone. And, I'm sure their 
smell, taste, and touch, are much the same as ours, other than differences in 
levels of sensitivity. 

Therefore, the Universe, right from the beginning in primal SPACE, located 
everywhere in the Planck vacuum, is governed by fundamental cyclic laws inherent 
in the initial spinergy of the primal "singularity" and is omipresent, 
omniscient and omnipotent -- with no need of a separate personal GOD-creator with 
miraculous powers.

In fact, the caduceus, The thunderbird (linked to the swastika), and other 
mystical symbols such as the Ouroboros (snake with tail in mouth), the twin 
triangle Seal of Solomon (star of David), etc., have far more profound, 
scientifically rational and truthful meanings than you, or other fundamentalist 
religious proselytizers could ever attribute to them or imagine.

That Big Bang fiery explosion, and descending fractal involutions of 
conscious universal mind could be what is meant by the "descent in fiery chariots," 
etc. And, Ezekial and Elijah, like Noah and other "ancients" in the Bible, 
could very well be anthropomorphized characterizations of those primal conscious 
entities who descend (incarnate?) into physical mankind... With the Biblical 
flood, being another metaphor, symbolizing the transformation of the encoded 
imagery (e.g., passing through the allegorical "waters of space") from the 
spiritual-mental worlds, to the Astral-Physical worlds... Along with the Ark 
being a metaphorical allegory, describing the transcendent fields of genetic 
memory carrying the informational "seeds" of all forms of sentient nature (later 
expressed physically in the DNA molecule describing each such organism).

All that fundamental reality can be experienced directly in Samadhi 
meditation -- as reported in the visions of the prophets, and by countless initiated 
meditative Masters and Adepts -- following the instructions given by the Buddha 
directly to his disciples, and as explained by Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita, 
as well as in the Hindu Upanishads and Puranas, along with Patanjali, and all 
other initiated gurus.

This can also all be scientifically explainable, hypothetically, in terms of 
pure Cosmic consciousness coupled with the noumenal matter-energy (spin 
momentum) that is the inherent nature of the primal or absolute SPACE -- out of 
which this whole space-time universe emanated, involved fractally, expanded and 
evolved into the Cosmos and all sentient beings, up until the appearance of 
physical mankind.

Any other interpretation of such conscious experiences or evolution of Man, 
as described metaphorically and symbolically in the biblical scriptures, is 
rooted in miracles and a personal God-creator outside of primal SPACE and eternal 
TIME (Infinite duration) that, from a purely scientific philosophical point 
of view MUST be the source of all consciousness and physical being, along with 
metric time, metric space, and the speed of light that defines all physical 
(but NOT meta- or supra-physical) existences. In the higher order fields 
located everywhere in the Planck vacuum, the speed of light varies up to near 
infinite velocities, the closer the fields get to the zero-point of absolute or 
primal SPACE (that, in itself, is timeless and dimensionless). Note the 
potentially infinite "zero-point energy" in the Planck vacuum measured by the Casimir 
effect, and the action at a distance "entanglement" of the Aspect experiment. 

Therefore. the underlying metaphysical reality is just as "existent" as the 
metric physical reality, and the scientific explanations of that reality (even 
if only hypothetical and unfalsifiable) are far more consistent with modern 
scientific thought related to physics and cosmology -- (which, in QFT, LQG, 
string, M and Holographic Paradigm theories, etc., are coming closer and closer to 
realizing the fundamental metaphysical truths underlying overall reality) -- 
than are the faith based ideas of fundamentalists and creationists literal 
interpretations of the Bible... None of which are appropriate as evidence in 
scientific discussions of consciousness and its relationship to mind, memory, 
brain, body, senses, the objective world, or space-time itself. 

Leon Maurer

In a message dated 9/14/07 6:32:44 AM, "Michael Cecil" mececil@sbcglobal.net 
writes:

> > > On Aug 28, 2007, at 2:33 PM, richfaussette wrote:
> 
> > >>Even the gnosis of Jesus Christ was transmitted in public when the
> > >>apostles seeing Jesus after his resurrection/gnosis all receive
> > >>tongues of fire on their heads (Agni god of fire was wrapped in
> > >>robes of fire for his ascent to the godhead)signifiying their
> > >>communal enlightenment.
> 
> Oops.
> 
> You are speculating on something of which you have no Knowledge.
> 
> This was not an observable occurrence in the space-time reality.
> 
> Neither, by the way, was the ascent of Elijah in a 'chariot of fire'
> or was the 'chariot' of Ezekiel.
> 
> This is a very specific reference to what is referred to in the
> monotheistic traditions (the book of Daniel, Ezekiel, the Gospels) as
> the Vision of the "Son of man", symbolized as the caduceus, the
> Thunderbird in the American Indian traditions, the crucifixion of
> Jesus between two thieves at the "place of the skull", and as
> Mohammed's "Night Journey" on al-buraq.
> 
> Michael Cecil
> 
> http://unsealing-the-seven-seals.blogspot.com/
> 
> 

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