Theos-Talk Archives (July 2007 Message tt00311)

Hello Pablo
  In response, I will give you my point of view.
  Warm regards
  Cass

Pablo Sender <pasender@yahoo.com.ar> wrote:
          Cass wrote:
> I don't believe it. Do you honestly accept that Leadbeater was 
framed by envious parents? Can you answer why the children were in 
his care in the first place?

I sincerely believe it.
The children were in his care because he was training them, but only 
to those who had the potentiality to become a chela. Many children 
were offered to him by the parent themselves and, after looking at 
their auras, he decided whether they were fitted or not. That was the 
explanation.
  Cass:  How did he know that they were "Chela" material.  According to records Krishnamurti's was chosen this way, yet, as a thinking adult, he turned away from the TS.  He, like the others, were being groomed by Leadbeater for a position that came out of Leadbeater's delusional mind. My understanding is that Krishnamurti was at Adyar because Annie Besant gave his father a job, so in that particular case, no offering by parents took place.  Also, I find it unimaginable that a child would have the mental capacity to undertake what is required of a chela.  Whatever became of these Chela's?  

> 
> When has masturbation resulted in a less frequent occurence. 
What is he saying, the more you do the deed, the less you will feel 
the need to do it? Are you telling me that a ten year old boy is 
sexually awakened, and even if that was the case, is Leadbeather 
suggesting that all parents should advise their children in this way? 

He said clearly that the advise was given only to certain children, 
in special cases, and was not meant to be generalized, and the advise 
was to reduce the frequency in time, nor to indulge in the habit. 
   
  Cass: Pablo how does doing something decrease the need to do it?  If anything it would increase the need.  Considering their location in Adyar one has to ask where there sexual interests came from.  They obviously were not exposed to the sex and violence that our children are?  I am not a sexologist but I do have two children and my experience is that sexuality isn't innately awakened until puberty, unless it is artificially induced. These boys were pre-pubescent.
  
let me tell you, I'd not hesitate in telling a boy to masturbate 
instead of going to a prostitute. That's for sure. When teenager, I 
was working in the Sexology Society in my city, giving classes to 
other teenagers (we were trained to do that by professionals) and I 
had of course, many friends. I could see how the sexual thoughts may 
become an obsession. Your thoughts attract elementals. If you are 
being trained to prepare to become a pupil, and your sexuality have a 
strong influence, especially when teenager when you don't know how to 
manage it, the constant thoughts would be worst that the physical act 
of relieving a physical and natural pressure. 
  Cass: Hence the reason why adolescents should not be chosen as Chela's.  Where does it say  that students of Theosophy should not indulge in sex?  You would end up with more problems if your sexuality was repressed which would engender even worse elementals.   Catholocism has proven that theory.  Isn't it more psychologically healthy, if heterosexual, to desire a woman rather than to self pleasure, after all what are these teenage boys "thinking" about while performing the act?   Not the Stanzas of Dzyan.
   
  An adult may have a 
healthy sexual life, but a teenager cannot, and how is he supposed to 
deal with it? Why an adult may have sexual relationships and a 
teenager cannot masturbate? Some adults have sexual relationships 
everyday. What would you say of a teenager that masturbates? 
everyday? Nevertheless, my advise to a teenager in that respect would 
say to do it as less as possible. That was also Leadbeater advice.
  Cass: I am not opposed to masturbation, but if we are going to look at it from the angle of elementals, then the thought is generated, whether the woman is present in person or is imagined.  No?  Also if the sexual libido is so high then that particular chela would have an unimaginable hard time overcoming his/her own sexuality.  One must reach the point of no longer desiring sex not repressing sex ,if one is to be a true chela.  Didn't Gandhi sleep with two nubile girls in order to know that he had overcome the desire for sex?

> 
> To be quite honest I would not be surprised if CWL hated women. 

CWL had also women as his pupils, women who defended him when the 
accusations and he was devoted to Annie Besant, so there is no 
evidence of his hating women.
  Cass:  Were there female chelas at Adyar?

> Why didn't CWL respect the culture of modesty within the Indian 
community, I fail to see how a piece of cloth is unhealthy. 

The piece of cloth is unhealthy because they don't clean his sexual 
organs. And he was training to the would-be vehicle to the World 
Teacher.
   
  Cass: That is silly Pablo, all one needs to do is lift the cloth, how else would they be able to urinate?

I see logic in these things, when correctly presented. Before going 
to Adyar, I had read about it in a much distorted way, that I could 
not accept. But then, when I saw the other side of the coin, I saw it 
as possible.

In the first letter of Master KH to Leadbeater, he states the 
conditions to become a Chela:

"To accept any man as a chela does not depend on my personal will. It 
can only be the result of one's personal merit and exertions in that 
direction. Force any one of the "Masters" you may happen to choose; 
do good works in his name and for the love of mankind; be pure and 
resolute in the path of righteousness [as laid out in our rules]; be 
honest and unselfish; forget your Self but to remember the good of 
other people - and you will have forced that "Master" to accept you."

And he was accepted, as said in other letter. But then the Mahatma go 
on"

"There is also the collective karma of the caste you belong to - to 
be considered. It is undeniable that the cause you have at heart is 
now suffering owing to the dark intrigues, the base conspiracy of the 
Christian clergy and missionaries against the Society. They will stop 
before nothing to ruin the reputation of the Founders. Are you 
willing to atone for their sins?"

Is it not interesting to see that one of the main problems the 
catholic Priest are facing is the accusations of abusing children? It 
seems that was a relatively spread practices that in coming to light 
only now. Was that the collective karma mentioned by the Mahatma?
   
  Cass: As I said, after HPB I do not believe that the Masters were in contact with anyone, so therefore I believe this to be a forgery.  The language and tone is so far removed from how KH or Morya express themselves.  Whoever wrote this is writing to justify an action, this is not how the Masters think.



         

       
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