Theos-Talk Archives (July 2007 Message tt00221)

Daniel:
I don't have much time right now to reply in a more complete way to
your email below but will just jot down several comments.

Frank:
Thanks. I'm in a hurry, too.

Daniel:
Maybe what you say above is true, but at the same time your response
reminds me of typical replies from some Leadbeater, Bailey, and
Prophet students who have used that SAME, IDENTICAL argument ("he
[that is, the critic] sticks on words and catches not the sense) to
defend Leadbeater's, Bailey's and Prophet's "versions" of Theosophy!

I was told by one Bailey student that if I only had "intuition" I
would see that Bailey's teachings are a continuation and expansion of
HPB's....


Frank:
I see. That's the reason why we should not stick on words.
A says B is the murder. B says A is the murder. Who is right?

Daniel:
But Frank, I never said that "the occult machines have stopped."
That is your interpretation, not mine.

And who said "further advancement" was not possible?

Frank:
I know that do did not wrote it.
Yes, it is my interpretation of your possible meaning.
I am glad to see your have clarified this point, which could be 
misunderstood.

Daniel:
Now there may be various interpretations of what H.P.B. actually
meant and you may say that what she wrote doesn't apply to Purucker.

Frank:
No. In the opposite I say, that what HPB wrote applies VERY WELL to 
Purucker!!
Do you see what I mean??

Daniel:
But in the above passage [snipped, HPB's mention of 1897 closing cycle], 
please note that H.P.B. seems to indicate,
that at least in certain cases no "further advancement" would be
possible after 1899! Not to mention HPB's comment that "No Master of
Wisdom from the East will appear..."

Frank:
Right. But were is the problem??
HPB was right, as history has proofed, no further advancement after 1897 was 
possible, after the enemies from within had began to destroy the 
Theosophical Movement.
Tingley and Purucker were sent to save as much as possible. That was shown 
to Blavatsky by her teacher in birds-eye vision to give her hope.
History has proofen that without Judge, Tingley, Purucker Theosophy today 
would be regarded as a clever trick to destroy Germany for the launching of 
a world republic.
Theosophist would be occupied by astral travels, past lifes research and 
initiations into mayavic secrets.
She was also quite right, that no Master was to be appear, they only sent 
their messengers.
The Masters, who work in the West, were already on their post.

That you quote HPB in the connection to Purucker lets me assume that you 
this that GdeP cannot be a successor of HPB, no O.H., no messenger of the 
Masters in the guruparampara, because you interpret HPB's statement in that 
way, that it cannot be.
If this is your interpretation, then it's a wrong one.

Daniel:
And she specifically says:

"....the time for such priceless acquisition is limited...."

And last but not least, G. de Purucker died in 1942. 65 years ago!

Frank:
Mmmh, Daniel, I'm puzzled.
What do you want me to say?
HPB said to her lay chelas that in this incarnation they have only six or 
seven years left until 1897 to recognize the next messenger and to work 
before it to make him appear!!!!
Obviously, some HPB students did hard spiritual work, because as a result KT 
and GdeP appeared as successors, otherwise they were withdrawn.
Was KT announced in 1897 after one secret year of probation for the 
Theosophcial Movement as HPB's leagl successor and as Leader of the TM and 
was she elected as Leader for life by 5,000 delegates, the biggest 
theosophical convention in historical times, or not?
And what has HPB's warning to her lay chelas, not to fail, not to make her 
last incanation a failure, to do with the death of GdeP?????
Please clarify.

Daniel:
Where is Purucker's successor?

Frank:
If you ask three people, you will get four answers.
Ask the TS in Hannover, Germany, and they will say, their late leader 
Hermann Knoblauch (died around 2003) was the legal successor.
Ask the Pasadena people and they will say, Conger was it.
Ask the Point Loma people in the Netherlands (a German state, stolen from 
the German Reich by the Jesuits in 1648) and they will say, it was Hartley.

If you ask me, I say you it was neither of them and GdeP's successor is 
there were the original E.S. and T.S. Headquarters of 1875 are.

Daniel:
With Purucker's death, have "the occult machines" stopped?

Frank:
Of course not. But is seems the great Ones now use other channels than the 
TM for the dissemination of new teachings and the theosophcial organisations 
are becoming museums.

Daniel:
Furthermore, have any "new teachings" been given out since 1942?
Where are they? And if not, why were they not given out?

Frank:
Yes, a lot. The Kalachakra tantra, the Tibetan book of the Dead (around 
1935), the Qumran texts, the Lotus sutra and much more unknown and 
disappeared texts are available now in the West in Western tongue for the 
first time.

Daniel:
Is any "further advancement" possible since his death?

It will be interesting to see how you answer this question about
the post Purucker era.

Frank:
I hope you are satisfied with my answers.
If not, we should discuss further.

Perhaps you know that for Tingley the foundation of modern Theosophy in the 
English speaking world was understood by her not as a final thing, but only 
as a first stage. She was very eager, to establish and organize Theosophy in 
another country, with another culture and language as a second 
stage.Obviously this second stage (further augemention and advancement of 
the basic doctrines in a forein land is obviously usual as we see it with 
Gautama's teaching, which were preserved and well commented in a foreign 
land - Tibet) HPB had also in mind, when the final copy, ready to the 
printer, of the REAL thrid volume of the Secret Doctrine was withdrawn until 
the theosophists would understand the first two volumes).
Obviously, KT's plans failed, because of the big boycott from the enemies 
from within. Neither the theosophical world, nor the outer world have 
progressed morally much since then and it seems we are already far back in 
the occult schedule.