Theos-Talk Archives (July 2007 Message tt00208)

Daniel,
in regard to myself I can agree with all reserves you mention.
I think it is a healthy sign to have too much reservations against the own
position or "occult standing" as to have too less of them.

Speaking for myself, I am as a lay not in a position to give authoritative
doctrinal statements, but just my own understanding and meaning on request
of Pablo.
Until know I have not fully understood Pablo's intention and see not the
doctrinal differences between Purucker and Blavatsky as to their 
presentation
of the dogmas of theosophy.

My intermediate result of my discourse with Pablo is, that he sticks on
words and catches not the sense. Usually this lack of understanding is a
lack of discriminition power (buddhi-manas), which is a sine qua non in the
occult realm, don't?

When Pablo rejects all teachings which are not expressed in "The Secret
Doctrine" (although one can find hints to them), then logically he must be
convinced that only one globe exists as the SD concerns mainly with the  4th
globe, ergo: The first three globes must be a blind, there is only one
globe!! Judeo-Christian talmudic dead-letter!

But, Daniel, as you write:

=>I personally have preferred to focus my attention, time and study on
the teachings as first given out by H.P.B. and in the Mahatma Letters.

... I have to object this, because it was and is not the intention of both
HPB as of her teachers to focus the attention that way.
That would make a museum out of Theosophy, a dead thing, a kind of new
Vatican (only will a better "bible").

We are now in danger to fall into the old trodden astral tracks of some
2,000 years ago and repeat the deadly mistakes as reincarnated Christians.
We must not repeat and repeat endless the old scenes like Phil Connors
(again a "Co"...:-))) in Griondhog Day...:-)))

Your position reminds me of the fundamentalist position of the ULT, those
people who obviously believe that after HPB's and/or Judge's death the
occult machines have stopped and no further advancement was possible and no
new teachings were given out.

GdeP declared half-publicly that he was sent my the Masters of Wisdom to
give out NEW teachings, which the three messengers preceding him in the
guruparampara were not allowed, because the time was not reap.

Real theosophy is a living thing and living things must not locked up. To
stick on HPB and ML would lead to crystallized, bigot and regressing 
behaviour.
It is against all written and unwritten teeachings we have from HPB and her
teachers.

She herself directed us, the theosophists of the future, to follow her (in
spirit, not in dead letter) and keep the link unbroken and therefore make 
her last incarnation not a failure.
That were her last words before changing the stage and that was also her 
last
symbol on her last photo to us.

"It is needless to explain that this book is not the Secret Doctrine in its
entirety, but a select number of fragments of its fundamental tenets,
special attention being paid to some facts which have been seized upon by
various writers, and distorted out of all resemblance to the truth."
http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/sd/sd1-0-co.htm#preface

"But these two volumes had to serve as a PROLOGUE, and prepare the reader's
mind for those which shall now follow. [...]"
"These two volumes only constitute the work of a pioneer who has forced his
way into the well-nigh impenetrable jungle of the virgin forests of the Land
of the Occult. A commencement has been made to fell and uproot the deadly
upas trees of superstition, prejudice, and conceited ignorance, so that
these two volumes should form for the student a fitting prelude for Volumes
III. and IV. Until the rubbish of the ages is cleared away from the minds of
the Theosophists to whom these volumes are dedicated, it is impossible that
the more practical teaching contained in the Third Volume should be
understood. Consequently, it entirely depends upon the reception with which
Volumes I. and II. will meet at the hands of Theosophists and Mystics,
whether these last two volumes will ever be published, though they are
almost completed.

http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/sd/sd2-3-09.htm

"One turn of the key, and no more, was given in "Isis." Much more is
explained in these volumes. In those days the writer hardly knew the
language in which the work was written, and the disclosure of many things,
freely spoken about now, was forbidden. In Century the Twentieth some
disciple more informed, and far better fitted, may be sent by the Masters of
Wisdom to give final and irrefutable proofs that there exists a Science
called Gupta-Vidya; and that, like the once-mysterious sources of the Nile,
the source of all religions and philosophies now known to the world has been
for many ages forgotten and lost to men, but is at last found."
http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/sd/sd1-0-in.htm

Judge confirms HPB's prediction, that in the 20th century a "more informed
disciple" will come "to give and irrefutable proofs that there exists a
Science called Gupta-Vidya", cp. his "Echoes of the orient", Vol. I, p. 283.

WHO WAS IT??? DID HE COME OR DID HE/SHE/IT NOT COME?

Elsewhere K.H. states that the TS is but the pioneer for greater things to
come in the next centuries. From the Mahatma's point of view, from a full 
human
or superhuman view, it would look quite idiotic to asume that the esoteric
world stopped with the passing of HPB or someone else. From that point of
view even the erratic und lunatic position of a Besant is much closer to the
truth!!!

So, if you say: It does not concern me, what HPB's successors in the Tibetan
transmission line said, I have enough to read with the SD and ML (and I
agree, it's a full time and life life time job!) is the same as to say that
high schools and universities must be closed, because in the primary school
is so much to learn and that is enough and even most of the adults will not
understand all the stuff of a primary school if you would ask on the street!

Or take the Amish people. They say: We need no tv, no phone, no electricity,
no automobiles, horses and candelars are enough!!!

As the Christians perverse their Jesus, above all the "Jesuits", the
Theosophists pervert the Theosophy of HPB.

>From now on I speak of those anti-Blavatskian Blavatsky-"Theosophist" not as
pseudo-theosophists, but as Amish-theosophists!!!

Frank


----- Original Message ----- 
From: danielhcaldwell
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 8:17 PM
Subject: Theos-World Pablo AND Frank on discrepancies between Purucker &
Blavatsky


Pablo AND Frank
on discrepancies between Purucker & Blavatsky

Well, after reading both Pablo's and Frank's postings
on the above issue, I would say that neither writer
has presented a good case....at least so far.

But setting aside both Frank's and Pablo's views, the basic problem
would appear to be as follows:

What student of Theosophy has actually carefully read and studied
H.P.B.'s writings in enough depth and detail to be in
a position to say this is what H.P.B. teaches on [NAME THE SUBJECT,
in this case on the Kumaras]??

Then has that same student then gone and carefully
read and studied all of G. de Purucker's writings
in enough depth, etc. to understand what he is teaching on this
or that subject???

And then, who has taken the additional time and effort
to compare and contrast the teachings of Blavatsky and
Purucker in enough depth, etc. so that one is in a good position
to know if there are actually such real discrepancies or not???

The above study would take probably years to adequately do!

Over the years I have known students on both sides of the fence.

For example, the late Walter Carrithers, Jr. and Leona Sterba had
some serious reservations about some of G. de Purucker's teachings.
Especially Mr. Carrithers. Others pesons could be mentioned.

On the other hand, there are many students who are very impressed
with Purucker's teachings. The late John Cooper, Jerry Hejka-Edkins,
Elton Tucker, to just name a few!

I personally have preferred to focus my attention, time and study on
the teachings as first given out by H.P.B. and in the Mahatma Letters.

Why?

Well, for one reason, there is more than 10,000 pages of H.P.B. and
the Mahatmas' writings. That's alot of pages! Just to read! not
counting the time to actually study and ... maybe understand!

I personally find SO MUCH MATERIAL here in this Blavatsky corpus of
writings that is more than enough to try to read, study and .....
understand.

I'm afraid that in many cases I've only skimmed the surface of some
of this Blavatsy/Mahatma literature.

Maybe I have a small brain capacity....

Now don't get me wrong, I have also read some of the books by Besant,
Judge, Leadbeater, Purucker, etc. etc. All of these books that I
have read contain food for thought, if nothing else.

But I have focused primarily on the Blavatsky material simply because
at some point, one must ask oneself: how many books by all these
different authors do I want to read? And what is to be accomplished
by reading more and more....

So I have returned time and time again to the Blavastky
writings ...those 10,000 plus pages...and I find myself amazed at the
profundity and depth there....

I sometimes grin to myself when I hear writers say: Well, you know
that H.P.B. only presented a "fragment" of the real Theosophical
teachings. No doubt, No doubt, I reply. But what a fragment! What
a HUGE fragment!

Daniel
http://hpb.cc