Theos-Talk Archives (June 2007 Message tt00014)

  Check out Reigle's long article "When God came to India," about the
corruption of an earlier non-theistic Hinduism.  Great article!  Don't
know if it is on the net or not.

         - jake j.

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "danielhcaldwell"
<danielhcaldwell@...> wrote:
>
> Compare what KH says about "God" 
> with what the Dvaita Vedanta School teaches
> 
> 
> Master KH writes in Mahatma Letter No. 88 (Chrono ed.):
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Pantheistic we may be called -- agnostic NEVER. If people are willing 
> to accept and to regard as God our ONE LIFE immutable and unconscious 
> in its eternity they may do so and thus keep to one more gigantic 
> misnomer. But then they will have to say with Spinoza that there is 
> not and that we cannot conceive any other substance than God; or as 
> that famous and unfortunate philosopher says in his fourteenth 
> proposition, "practer Deum neque dari neque concepi potest 
> substantia" -- and thus become Pantheists....
> 
> . . . We are not Adwaitees, but our teaching respecting the one life 
> is identical with that of the Adwaitee with regard to Parabrahm. And 
> no true philosophically trained Adwaitee will ever call himself an 
> agnostic, for he knows that he is Parabrahm and identical in every 
> respect with the universal life and soul -- the macrocosm is the 
> microcosm and he knows that there is no God apart from himself, no 
> creator as no being. Having found Gnosis we cannot turn our backs on 
> it and become agnostics....
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> This view of "God" is totally different from what, for example,
> the Dvaita Vedanta School of India teaches.
> 
> Below are some relevant extracts from Wikepedia on Dvaita:
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Dvaita...a school of Vedanta (the most widespread Hindu philosophy) 
> founded by Madhvacharya, stresses a strict DISTINCTION between God 
> (Vishnu) and the individual living beings (jivas). According to 
> Madhvacharya, souls are not 'created' by God but do, nonetheless 
> depend on him for their existence....
> 
> Like Ramanuja, Madhvacharya espoused a Vaishnava theology that 
> understands Brahman to be endowed with attributes and a PERSONAL God, 
> Vishnu....
> 
> Dvaita asserts that THE DIFFERENCE between the individual soul or 
> jîva, and God, (Îshvara or Vishnu), IS ETERNAL AND REAL. Actually, 
> this is just one of the five differences that are so stated -- all 
> five differences that constitute the universe are eternal....
> 
> Some teachings of Madhvacharya look different from mainstream 
> Hinduism. One example is his doctrine of ETERNAL DAMNATION. Generally 
> Hindus believe in the eventual salvation of every soul. Many of the 
> doctrines in the Dvaita traditions resemble those of STRICT 
> MONOTHEISM that is predominant amongst followers of Semitic 
> religions. Dvaita provides a greater role to Bhakti than other 
> schools of Vedanta. Followers of Dvaita believe in the supremacy of 
> Vishnu over other deities including Shiva and do not believe in the 
> Hindu concept of Trinity, Trimurti of Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva. Shiva is 
> worshipped as a subordinate god (deva). Though this appears 
> intolerant, it is because of the strong monotheistic belief in A NON-
> IMPERSONAL GOD unlike Advaita for which the identity of God does not 
> matter as it is Nirguna. Historically, Dvaita scholars have been 
> involved in vigorous debates against other schools of thought, 
> especially Advaita. Whereas Advaita preaches that Atman and Brahman 
> are one and the same, which is not evident to the atman till he comes 
> out of a so-called illusion, Madhvacharya puts forward the truth as 
> Brahman (Vishnu) and Atman (soul) TO BE ETERNALLY DIFFERENT, with God 
> always the most superior one. It is the same point that Madhvacharya 
> reinforces in one of his doctrines:
> 
> "If you feel there is no God, how do you explain as to why you cannot 
> free yourself from the limitations on Earth? If you feel YOU are the 
> one in control of everything (as Advaita preaches that Soul and God 
> are one and the same), then how come you don't enjoy happiness always 
> and are also subject to sorrow and pain (as God is supposed to be an 
> eternity of happiness)?"
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> caps added except the caps in YOU.
> Quoted from:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvaita
> 
> Now some may say that all of the above doesn't really matter, but 
> here is what Master KH once wrote to Mr. Hume:
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> As you say this need "make no difference between us" -- personally. 
> But it does make a world of difference if you propose to learn and 
> offer me to teach. For the life of me I cannot make out how I could 
> ever impart to you that which I know since the very A.B.C. of what I 
> know, the rock upon which the secrets of the occult universe, whether 
> on this or that side of the veil, are encrusted, is contradicted by 
> you invariably and a priori. 
> 
> My very dear Brother, either we know something or we do not know 
> anything. In the first case what is the use of your learning, since 
> you think you know better? In the second case why should you lose 
> your time? You say it matters nothing whether these laws are the 
> expression of the will of an intelligent conscious God, as you think, 
> or constitute the inevitable attributes of an unintelligent, 
> unconscious "God," as I hold. I say, it matters everything, and since 
> you earnestly believe that these fundamental questions (of spirit and 
> matter -- of God or no God) "are admittedly beyond both of us" -- in 
> other words that neither I nor yet our greatest adepts can know no 
> more than you do, then what is there on earth that I could teach 
> you?...
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Quoted from:
> http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-22.htm
> 
> Daniel
> http://hpb.cc
>