Theos-Talk Archives (March 2007 Message tt00216)

Hi Perry
  I note that Krishnamurti also said that "First, one must be disturbed, and it is obvious that most os us do not like to be disturbed.  We think we have found a pattern of life - the Master, the belief, whatever it is - and there we settle down.  It is like having a good bureaucratic job and functioning there for the rest of one's life.  With that same mentality we approach various qualities of which we want to be rid.  WE DO NOT SEE THE IMPORTANCE OF BEING DISTURBED, OF BEING INWARDLY INSECURE, OF NOT BEING DEPENDANT.  Surely it is only in insecurity that you discover, that you see, that you understand.  We want to be like a man with plenty of money, at ease; he will not be disturbed; he doesn't want to be disturbed.  Disturbance is essential for understanding and any attempt to find security is a hindrance to understanding."
   
  Cass

plcoles1 <plcoles1@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
          Hi Anton,
You wrote :
"I believe that the Theosophical Society was founded with the purpose
to spread the knowledge of Theosophy in the world and that the
Objects of the Society are the necessary means to accomplish that
purpose. In other words, that the "inner" work of the lodge
(individual study, lodge meetings and so on) is the preparation for
its "outer" work, for the interaction with the community."

I agree and I think that really most of the structures are there 
within the society to help fulfill those goals.
For example the Theosophical Order of Service (TOS) in an avenue with 
which people can help promote active altruism, or they can join 
institutions already established exclusively along those lines.

Amnesty International is one I was involved with for a short period.

As each person will have a different approach to theosophy everyone 
will resonate more strongly in one area than another.
Some are more predisposed to meditation for example; some are more 
intellectual in their approach, some more artistic ?.

What I personally would like to see developed in the TS is more 
scholarly freedom within the publications for all the reasons I have 
discussed here at theos talk.

Perhaps a journal that allows more penetrating examination of 
different theosophical ideas much along the lines of Lucifer.

This is not everyone's cup of tea I realize however there is a 
definite need for it in my opinion.

People should not feel that they are `heretics' because they hold to 
certain views either about past teachers (be that HPB, CWL or 
whomever), the teachings, historical issues or because of a personal 
opinion of what they may feel is wrong with the society as it is, 
this surely is something no member should feel threatened by in a 
theosophical society.

You wrote :
"Nicholas Roerich said something like this: With the creative process
there comes the quality of tolerance we need so much. If we include
the tolerance only conventionally and superficially we create
hypocrisy. Only with the noble creative process, with constant
realization, comes that wonderful guest: the tolerance."

Great quotation and very apt.

Best Wishes

Perry

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Anton Rozman" <anton_rozman@...> 
wrote:
>
> Hi Perry,
> 
> Thank you for your thoughts. Let me address the problem you defined 
> as the conflict between expansiveness and traditionalism from 
another 
> perspective.
> 
> I believe that the Theosophical Society was founded with the 
purpose 
> to spread the knowledge of Theosophy in the world and that the 
> Objects of the Society are the necessary means to accomplish that 
> purpose. In other words, that the "inner" work of the lodge 
> (individual study, lodge meetings and so on) is the preparation for 
> its "outer" work, for the interaction with the community. If the 
> lodge limits itself to the "inner" work then the mentioned problems 
> becomes immanent. If instead it opens itself to the community it 
> necessarily involves itself in some creative process which absorbs 
> and directs all the energies towards the ends which transcends 
> personal interests of its members.
> 
> Nicholas Roerich said something like this: With the creative 
process 
> there comes the quality of tolerance we need so much. If we include 
> the tolerance only conventionally and superficially we create 
> hypocrisy. Only with the noble creative process, with constant 
> realization, comes that wonderful guest: the tolerance.
> 
> Warmest regards,
> Anton
> 
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "plcoles1" <plcoles1@> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Anton, I know that the ES is a point of contention for 
some 
> > within the TS.
> > 
> > I personally have not felt that the problems in the TS come 
> > specifically from the ES.
> > However there is I am sure much I don't know about it.
> > 
> > I'll try and briefly explain where I feel some of the conflicts 
> come 
> > from, leaving aside the Leadbeater issue.
> > 
> > One of the problems I think that continues to play itself is that 
> > when some new people join the society they feel it is a kind of 
> > platform for anything and everything.
> > 
> > When the TS doesn't live up to their expectations of what they 
> think 
> > it should be they can cause quite a bit of turbulence within the 
> > branch especially if they have joined with a preexisting agenda, 
> like 
> > promoting some particular hobbyhorse they may be on at the time.
> > 
> > Then you get those who have been involved with the society for 
some 
> > years, read a lot of the traditional literature of the 
> society?.they 
> > may appear to newcomers as being stuck in the past or not 
> > progressive. 
> > 
> > On the one side there maybe what seems to be a force of 
> expansiveness 
> > and on the other traditionalism.
> > 
> > Expansiveness and traditionalism have this constant grappling 
with 
> > each other.
> > 
> > I would suggest both have a place, however both need to use 
wisdom, 
> > otherwise what you get is either lack of direction and purpose on 
> the 
> > one hand or stagnation and mindless rigidity on the other.
> > 
> > Sometimes we need to drop some aspects that may no longer be 
> > appropriate.
> > 
> > For example in our branch the speaker used to stand on a stage 
> > towering above the audience and the president used to sit in a 
big 
> > chair on the stage like a king on a throne.
> > 
> > This thankfully was changed so that the president sat with 
everyone 
> > else and the speaker stood on the level with rest of the audience.
> > 
> > This was a break from the old hierarchical mindset of superiority 
> and 
> > a movement towards equality and brotherhood at least in symbolic 
> > terms as to how the lodge was setup.
> > 
> > Also the invocation was changed to a more gender sensitive and 
> > inclusive form, once again a symbol of inclusiveness and equality.
> > 
> > The other side of the coin is when people want to overturn 
> everything 
> > simply because its old.
> > 
> > When we are at a theosophical society set up to study the ANCIENT 
> > Wisdom this could be problematic however.
> > 
> > Theosophy does speak of a spiritual path although I know 
> Krishnamurti 
> > spoke very eloquently about moving beyond rigid and superstitious 
> > ideas about it.
> > Just a few thoughts 
> > 
> > 
> > Cheers
> > 
> > Perry
>



         

 
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