Theos-Talk Archives (March 2007 Message tt00143)

Hello Anton,
Stephen Hassan's material is very good and well worth looking at.

You wrote :

"I too went through the experience of being silently expelled from the
Theosophical Society because of being critical towards the policy of
local leaders.
And the most painful thing in such cases is that one is to a large 
extent prevented to work for theosophy - what is almost a crime."

I'd say it is a crime, I am very sorry to hear that Anton, if you 
don't mind sharing with us here what do you think was the catalyst 
for your being "silently expelled"?

I agree with you that the internet has opened up new opportunities 
and ways of sharing theosophy.

Also I agree that we need to transcend the "status of victim" and 
feeling disempowered by no longer belonging or being involved in a 
group, as if the group overly dysfunctional in is an empowerment to 
be out of it.

What needs to be determined is can change be made from within or is 
the dysfunction so ingrained that nothing is ever likely to change, 
however we can only determine this for ourselves which is a personal 
journey that may take some time to try and determine.

Also someone who challenges something (whether it is a mindset a 
teaching or an organization?) is not necessarily acting from a victim 
mentality, although this may in some cases be what's going on, here 
also the individual needs to questions their own motives and what 
psychological baggage they may be carrying.


Regards

Perry


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Anton Rozman" <anton_rozman@...> 
wrote:
>
> Hi Perry,
> 
> Thank you for the link. I spent quite some time studying the 
> documents on Steven Hasan's Freedom of Thought Center website which 
> is mentioned in the article you brought into consideration.
> 
> I can imagine how restrictions imposed to the personal freedom can 
> bring about painful wounds which are difficult to heal. I too went 
> through the experience of being silently expelled from the 
> Theosophical Society because of being critical towards the policy 
of 
> local leaders. And the most painful thing in such cases is that one 
> is to a large extent prevented to work for theosophy - what is 
almost 
> a crime. But with the internet at our disposal we can now, if we 
> wish, perform this work practically autonomously, independently of 
> any organization. It gives us opportunity to transcend the status 
of 
> victims and to collaborate with like-minded people around the 
world, 
> to be creative and to realize all our potentialities. It offers us 
> immense field for study and exchange of opinion. Let us enjoy this 
> opportunity to create new, different, more productive relationships.
> 
> Warmest regards,
> Anton
> 
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "plcoles1" <plcoles1@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Anton,
> > I agree historical context helps give perspective.
> > 
> > In my case my history,as I have mentioned here before, was being 
> > raised in the Jehovah's Witnesses which I left when I was 23.
> > 
> > The meme that is constantly reinforced in that cult is `beware of 
> > critical thinking' this I now know is classic cult thinking and 
> > brainwashing technique.
> > 
> > So when I discovered the aversion to critical thinking in the TS 
a 
> > red flag instantly went up.
> > This would be the same reaction from anyone who has escaped a 
cult.
> > 
> > Criticizing someone for the sake of meanness or personal gain is 
of 
> > course outrageous behavior, this is quite a different thing from 
> > asking valid questions in order to access the veracity of 
> > information, very different.
> > 
> > Best Wishes
> > 
> > Perry
> > 
> > PS you may be interested in this article :
> > http://www.escapefromwatchtower.com/mind.html
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Anton Rozman" <anton_rozman@> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Perry,
> > > 
> > > I am aware that putting the message in historical context you 
> > mention 
> > > it can mean: Let's not talk about the problems, let's sweep 
them 
> > > under the carpet. But nevertheless there are in my opinion some 
> > good 
> > > points in it, especially those two enumerated.
> > > 
> > > So, in my view the question is, how to use the positive charge 
of 
> > > critical perspective for the betterment of work.
> > > 
> > > Best regards,
> > > Anton
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "plcoles1" <plcoles1@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello Anton, 
> > > > This is interesting especially when taken in context of the 
> time 
> > > > (1933) which was not long after the disbanding of the Order 
of 
> > the 
> > > > Star. 
> > > > 
> > > > Cheers
> > > > 
> > > > Perry
> > > > 
> > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Anton Rozman" 
> <anton_rozman@> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Criticism 
> > > > > 
> > > > > I can recall no criticism of myself which, even though 
> > > > substantially 
> > > > > true, took into account those extenuating circumstances 
ever 
> > > > > following in the wake of all mistakes, those saving graces 
> > > bearing 
> > > > > witness to the sunshine however thickly enveloped by the 
> > darkness 
> > > > of 
> > > > > intervening clouds. I can recall no criticism of myself 
> which, 
> > > even 
> > > > > though in a measure erring on the side of leniency, 
envisaged 
> > the 
> > > > > whole of the cause as it sought to demonstrate the effect. 
I 
> > can 
> > > > > recall no criticism of myself, in other words, which was 
not 
> > > > partial. 
> > > > > I am no less sure that any criticism I may make of others 
> must 
> > > > > equally be no less partial, no less oblivious of 
extenuating 
> > > > > circumstances. No less unmindful of the sunshine while 
intent 
> > > upon 
> > > > > the clouds. I am not saying that criticism is never 
> expedient, 
> > > > never 
> > > > > justifiable. I do not say that criticism may not be on 
> occasion 
> > a 
> > > > > matter of duty. But I do say that criticism is a dangerous 
> > > > > occupation, for almost without exception it is composed of 
> > > untruth 
> > > > as 
> > > > > well as of truth. I also say that ninety-nine criticisms 
out 
> of 
> > a 
> > > > > hundred are both unnecessary and inexpedient, and that in 
the 
> > > > > majority of the ninety-nine there is more of untruth than 
of 
> > > truth. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > I therefore say that we should all be infinitely chary of 
> > > > criticism, 
> > > > > infinitely chary, holding ourselves back from criticism at 
> all 
> > > > times, 
> > > > > save most emergently, and then observing two rules of 
> > criticism: 
> > > > (1) 
> > > > > making the criticism to the individual who is the subject 
of 
> > the 
> > > > > criticism, (2) making the criticism to the individual whose 
> > duty 
> > > we 
> > > > > conceive it to be to know it for the sake of the work. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Casual criticism is intolerable. Criticism which is not 
> certain 
> > > to 
> > > > > reach the individual criticized is intolerable. Complaint 
> > against 
> > > > an 
> > > > > individual which we have no intention of making to his face 
> is 
> > > > > intolerable. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Can we not minimize criticism (1) by indulging in it most 
> > > sparingly 
> > > > > ourselves, and not communicating it to a third party save 
as 
> we 
> > > > also 
> > > > > communicate it to the party himself, (2) by refusing to 
> listen 
> > to 
> > > > it 
> > > > > from others, save as a matter of urgent duty? And in all 
> cases 
> > > > might 
> > > > > we not, as a matter of noblesse oblige, always declare with 
> our 
> > > > > criticism that we are well aware, and would wish taken into 
> > > > > consideration, that our criticism must at the most be 
partial 
> > and 
> > > > > neglectful of circumstances which may go far to justify the 
> > > matter 
> > > > of 
> > > > > the criticism, or at least to make it intelligible and not 
> > > > unnatural? 
> > > > > We know this is true in our own case. We know we are so 
often 
> > the 
> > > > > subject of misunderstanding. Let us have the grace to 
> recognize 
> > > > that 
> > > > > in our own criticisms of others this ingredient of 
> > > misunderstanding 
> > > > > is likely to be present to no small degree. 
> > > > > All this means a minimum of criticism, practically none at 
> all; 
> > a 
> > > > > maximum of understanding and appreciation; understanding in 
> > place 
> > > > of 
> > > > > misunderstanding. It also means that most criticism is 
> > > > > misunderstanding in greater or in smaller measure; that 
when 
> on 
> > > the 
> > > > > verge of criticism we stop, we look, we listen, and then 
> > refrain. 
> > > > > Who is there strong enough to remember to stop when on the 
> > verge, 
> > > > > when on the edge, or the precipice of criticism? The tongue 
> is 
> > a 
> > > > > rebellious member of the body, and so often runs away with 
> all 
> > > > other 
> > > > > members. Who will keep a rein on the tongue at all times, 
> > > maintain 
> > > > it 
> > > > > in servitude and restrain it from its habitual tyranny? Who 
> > will 
> > > > call 
> > > > > attention to the sunshine instead of to the clouds? Who 
will 
> > > > restrain 
> > > > > the ear, another unruly member of the body, from hearing 
that 
> > > which 
> > > > > it is hurtful to others to utter? Who has the courage and 
the 
> > > > > brotherhood for this? 
> > > > > 
> > > > > G. S. Arundale
> > > > > Condensed from The Theosophist, April 1933.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I will not judge my brother until I have walked two weeks 
in 
> > his 
> > > > > moccasins.
> > > > > Sioux Indian Saying 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Scanned from the Theosophical Digest, 1st Quarter, 1992.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>