Theos-Talk Archives (March 2007 Message tt00053)

Dear Adelasie

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "adelasie" <adelasie@...> wrote:
>
> In occultism we students are instructed to learn forgiveness, 
> tolerance, humility, compassion, and love for our brothers and 
> sisters. We are taught to develop loyalty and trustfulness, to live 
> our lives with hope and faith in the inherent goodness of humanity, 
> in the Christos within each human heart. 

In a recent posting, perhaps you missed it or chose not to respond, I 
wrote in response to the above:
"It is in this manner which I approach the issues surrounding Bishop 
Leadbeater. As a person he had obvious difficulties with 
truthfulness, honesty, accuracy and self-confessed sexual practices 
with young people. As you rightly state, most of us will also have, 
or have had, similar difficulties with at least some of these.
As a human being he deserves love, compassion and acceptance as an 
evolving soul. 
Some of his actions (and teachings) however deserve admonishment and 
even condemnation at the highest level." (Brackets added)

You further wrote:

> It is difficult to discover 
> what good can be served by students of occultism spending their 
time 
> uncovering the weaknesses of their fellow students, either past or 
> present. If a teaching, a writing, a teacher, or a student seems to 
> us to strike a wrong note, we have the right to disregard what they 
> say. But where in the ancient wisdom does it say that we are to 
> instruct other students whom or what to study? How do we know what 
> another should do? 

Were this to be a simple matter of human weakness your plea would be 
valid. Bishop Leadbeater presumed himself to be an authority in 
spiritual matters and shared with us his pronouncements.
Does this then preclude us from sharing with others our own 
experience or are we to obediently abide by his utterances? 
Does this then obviate us from any responsibility to warn others of 
lies, deception and outrageous behaviour we may have uncovered? 
Doesn't evil happen when good men do nothing?

>Is this not the meaning of "impersonal," to learn 
> to see with objective eyes fairly and from all sides, instead of 
> trying to impose our own ? 

Are you suggesting Bishop Leadbeater and Dr Besant were not trying to 
impose their own "inherently limited personal view on the minds and 
hearts of others"?

It is through objectively assessing these matters, impersonally and 
without fear or favour, that enables us to see more clearly and not 
be deluded by some form of imposed compliance, glamour or misplaced 
loyalty.

Kind regards
Nigel


> 
> Adelasie
> 
> On 3 Mar 2007 at 1:42, nhcareyta wrote:
> 
> > Dear Daniel, Perry, Gregory, Adelasie and all
> > 
> > Thank you for this excellent collation Daniel.
> > My very ordinary attempts to elucidate legitimate concerns about 
> > Bishop Leadbeater and others' misrepresentations of Madame 
Blavatsky 
> > and her teachers' Theosophical teachings, mindset and methodology 
> > have been far surpassed at a very high level of quality through 
these 
> > quotes you have collated Daniel,the quote from Sri Madhava Ashish 
> > recently brought here by Perry and the many historically factual 
> > postings from Dr Tillett. 
> > 
> > Please forgive the "stuck record" but along with many, many other 
> > examples, Bishop Leadbeater and Dr Besant repeatedly claimed to 
be in 
> > direct and ongoing contact with Madame Blavatsky's teachers. 
> > At the same time they wrote utterly contradictory teachings on so 
> > many subjects, whilst claiming they were representing these very 
same 
> > teachers and their teachings. 
> > 
> > You would think that any reasonable and fair-minded person would 
have 
> > to conclude that they were either completely delusional or simple 
> > liars. 
> > 
> > It seems incredulous and extraordinary that apologists continue 
to 
> > ignore these demonstrable facts either claiming them to be 
themselves 
> > lies or dismissing them as unimportant and separative. 
> > 
> > As putative seekers after truth, as evanescent as it may be to 
our 
> > limited minds, do we really need to ask why all this important?
> > 
> > In our search to make sense of life and whatever purpose it may 
have, 
> > surely we must develop criteria for determining the veracity or 
> > otherwise of pronouncements made by self-appointed life-teachers 
as 
> > our absolute minimum, starting point? 
> > Issues such as character, reputation, trustworthiness, lifestyle 
and 
> > other considerations might also be added to the equation, not for 
the 
> > sake of judgement/condemnation but objective discernment. 
> > 
> > Where we can determine certain teachers to have lied on many 
> > occasions and to have misrepresented others' teachings, why would 
we 
> > wish to continue studying their works? Do they make us feel 
> > comfortable and secure? Are they romantic and alluring to the way 
we 
> > might wish things to be? 
> > What do any of these have to do with spirituality? Do we really 
learn 
> > and grow when comfortable, indulgent and romantically deluded? 
> > Or do we require constant challenge and confrontation to keep our 
> > minds open and alert?
> > 
> > Madame Blavatsky and her Mahatmas' teachings, whether absolutely 
> > accurate or not, by their nature and methodology, challenge and 
> > stretch our minds and hearts often to breaking point. It is at 
this 
> > point that our arrogance and self-opinion, our desire for self-
> > comfort, predictability, security and safety begin the inevitable 
> > process of falling away and we are ultimately left with who we 
are in 
> > the raw, true state.
> > 
> > The only value I can determine from studying, accepting and 
following 
> > Bishop Leadbeater and his clones' romanticised teachings, many of 
> > which are fallacious and misrepresentative, is that when we 
finally 
> > awaken from our state of mental torpor, we will in the future be 
so 
> > much more wary of being so blindly deluded.
> > 
> > Thanks again Daniel
> > Kind regards
> > Nigel   
> > 
> > 
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "danielhcaldwell" 
> > <danielhcaldwell@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Should Theosophical students be 
> > > concerned about Pseudo-Theosophy?
> > > 
> > > Well, it appears that H.P. Blavatsky herself was
> > > concerned enough about the DISTORTION
> > > of theosophical teachings that she issued
> > > warnings and even corrections.
> > > 
> > > One may ask why one should be even concerned
> > > about such alleged distortions.
> > > 
> > > Notice how Madame Blavatsky addresses this
> > > issue:
> > > 
> > > "The great evil of the whole thing is, not that the truths of 
> > > Theosophy are adopted by these blind teachers, for we should 
gladly 
> > > welcome any spread, by whatever means, of ideals so powerful to 
> > wean 
> > > the world from its dire materialism - but that they are so 
> > interwoven 
> > > with mis-statements and absurdities that the wheat cannot be 
> > winnowed 
> > > from the chaff, and ridicule, if not worse, is brought to bear 
> > > upon. . . [the Theosophical] movement. . . ."
> > > 
> > > "How shall men discern good from evil, when they find it in its 
> > close 
> > > embrace?"
> > > 
> > > "The very words, 'Arhat,' 'Karma,' 'Maya,' 'Nirvana,' must turn 
> > > enquirers from our threshold when they have been taught to 
> > associate 
> > > them with such a teeming mass of ignorance and 
presumption. . . ." 
> > > 
> > > "Though false coin is the best proof of the existence of 
genuine 
> > > gold, yet, the false deceives the unwary. . . ." 
> > > http://blavatskyarchives.com/onpseudotheosophy.htm#save
> > > 
> > > H.P.B. repeats this same theme elsewhere:
> > > 
> > > "....If the 'false prophets of Theosophy' are to be left 
untouched, 
> > the 
> > > true prophets will be very soon--as they have already been--
> > confused 
> > > with the false. It is nigh time to winnow our corn and cast 
away 
> > the 
> > > chaff." 
> > > 
> > > "... We do not believe in allowing the presence of sham 
elements in 
> > > Theosophy, because of the fear, forsooth, that if even 'a false 
> > > element in the faith' is ridiculed, the latter 'is apt to shake 
the 
> > > confidence' in the whole...."
> > > 
> > > "...However it may be, let rather our ranks be made thinner, 
than the 
> > > Theosophical Society go on being made a spectacle to the world 
> > > through the exaggerations of some fanatics, and the attempts of 
> > > various charlatans to profit by a ready-made programme. These, 
by 
> > > disfiguring and adapting Occultism to their own filthy and 
immoral 
> > > ends, bring disgrace upon the whole movement...."
> > > http://blavatskyarchives.com/onpseudotheosophy.htm#if
> > > 
> > > And once again HPB addresses this same issue:
> > > 
> > > ". . . A new and rapidly growing danger. . . is 
threatening . . . 
> > the 
> > > spread of the pure Esoteric Philosophy and knowledge. . . . I 
> > allude 
> > > to those charlatanesque imitations of Occultism and 
> > Theosophy. . . . "
> > > 
> > > ". . . A close examination will assuredly reveal. . . materials 
> > > largely stolen . . . from Theosophical writings. . . [and] 
> > distorted 
> > > and falsified so as to be palmed off on the unwary as 
revelations 
> > of 
> > > new and undreamed of truths. But many will neither have the 
time 
> > nor 
> > > the opportunity for such a thorough investigation; and before 
they 
> > > become aware of the imposture they may be led far from the 
Truth."
> > > 
> > > ". . . Nothing is more dangerous to Esoteric Truth than the 
garbled 
> > > and distorted versions disfigured to suit the prejudices and 
tastes 
> > > of men in general." 
> > > 
> > > I draw special attention to HPB's words:
> > > 
> > > "...the truths of Theosophy... are so interwoven with mis-
> > statements 
> > > and absurdities that the wheat cannot be winnowed from the 
> > > chaff. . . ."
> > > 
> > > "...many will neither have the time nor the opportunity for 
such a 
> > > thorough investigation; and before they become aware of the 
> > imposture 
> > > THEY MAY BE LED FAR FROM THE TRUTH." caps added
> > > 
> > > Food for thought....
> > > 
> > > Daniel
> > > http://hpb.cc
> > >
> > 
> > 
> >
>