Theos-Talk Archives (January 2007 Message tt00357)

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, leonmaurer@... wrote:
>
> Not my definition, but quoted directly from a standard 
dictionary.   What is 
> the definition created by agnostics themselves that contradicts 
this 
> dictionary definition?   
> > 

You didn't actually give me a full dictionary quotation, despite 
your claim.  Suffice it to say that a truer agnostic believes that a 
god is 'unknowable' (even by theists/deists), versus 
simply 'unknown', whether in the context of existence or 
relationship.

> > 
> Not dogmatic, since the specific God disbelieved in by learned 
theosophists 
> is the personal Christian one that stands outside of the universe 
itself -- but 
> does NOT refer to the Supreme Spirit or divine God consciousness 
that 
> pervades all of nature.

Which god are we then referring to in the context of our 
conversation?  I am atheist to the first god and agnostic to the 
second god that you mention.

>   Thus, theosophy is rooted in the practical idealism's that 
> underlies either Pantheism or Deism.   Therefore, a learned 
theosophist can be 
> either a Pantheist or a Deist, which precludes being an agnostic 
who 
> considers the possibility that a separate God might exist.   

You're perhaps not understanding agnosticism then.  An agnostic 
would not consider the possibility of a separate god's existence in  
the first place.

> However, it accepts that 
> most beginning students of theosophy are usually agnostics -- 
since atheism is 
> as much a religious belief or faith as theism.
> 

Religion does not require a belief in a god or gods.  Many religious 
Buddhists are atheist and/or agnostic.  Buddhism does not require a 
belief in a god or gods.  Neither does Theosophy, as far as I'm 
aware.

> > 
> The Theosophical Society does not speak for theosophy -- 

Then what does it speak for?

> which speaks for 
> itself.   

Theosophy may speak for itself, but this does not preclude the 
Theosophical Society (or anyone else, for that matter) speaking for 
Theosophy also.  Even as you are now speaking for Theosophy at this 
moment, even if you say that the Theosophical Society does not.

> The Society also has a governing charter given it by HPB that 
doesn't 
> allow it to discriminate between members religious or non 
religious beliefs.   
> Thus both atheists and agnostics or those of any or no religious 
belief are 
> welcome as members.
>

That's good to hear, and amounts to what they told me.

> Also, theosophy itself is not a "creed" but a synthesis of 
> science religion and philosophy -- although it is sometimes called 
the 
> "Wisdom religion" in the sense of being a form of Jnana Yoga.   
> 

An assertion that learned Theosophists cannot be agnostic sounds 
pretty much like a creed to me.  At least such is your personal 
creed, even if not Theosophy's or it's society.

>
> Leon
> > 

Vince