Theos-Talk Archives (November 2006 Message tt01320)

Daniel,

Fortunately or unfortunately, you seem to have limited yourself to the 1920s. 

I will try to give you a more updated vision of the theosophical movement.  

You say:  


============================================
> In the 1923 edition of "The United Lodge
> of Theosophists: Its Mission and its Future",
> Theosophy Company official(s) wrote:
> 
> "During all the troublous period 1893-6 Mr. Crosbie
> SHARED to an extent UNKNOWN and UNDREAMT OF by others
> in the burdens and the CONFIDENCE of Mr. Judge." p. 6.
> caps added.

=============================================


I say: 

1) If you ignore some historical 1893-1896 events, maybe the problem is not with the events themselves, but with your absence of knowledge about them. 

2) The fact that Mr. Judge had a trust-relationship with Robert Crosbie (which is a fact) does not mean, at all,  that he did not have trust-relationships with other theosophists as well. Judge  did have other trust-relationships, of course. So please don't use those words to suggest that according to the ULT Mr. Judge only had trust in Robert Crosbie, and in no one else. I hope you can understand this. 

3) Since the middle of the 20th century, the movement has changed and evolved. Your view of the relationship between the ULT and other Blavatsky/Judge groups and institutions is, let's say, "slightly outdated". 

Regards,  Carlos. 



De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Wed, 29 Nov 2006 02:39:59 -0000

Assunto:Theos-World Theosophy Company Statement about Crosbie and Judge

> Theosophy Company statement about
> Robert Crosbie & William Q. Judge
> 
> ============================================
> In the 1923 edition of "The United Lodge
> of Theosophists: Its Mission and its Future",
> Theosophy Company official(s) wrote:
> 
> "During all the troublous period 1893-6 Mr. Crosbie
> SHARED to an extent UNKNOWN and UNDREAMT OF by others
> in the burdens and the CONFIDENCE of Mr. Judge." p. 6.
> caps added.
> 
> Now it should be pointed out that no source documents
> are given; that is, no evidence given to support this general
> statement. 
> 
> But if one accepts the above statement at face value, what
> are the IMPLICATIONS of the statement?
> 
> It would appear that the writer of the above statement
> wants the reader to believe that Mr. Crosbie was in a
> somewhat unique position. Crosbie shared the
> confidence of Judge to an extent unknown and UNDREAMT
> OF by others.
> 
> OBTW, who are the "others"? Judge's other close
> associates and friends???
> 
> But if indeed Crosbie shared the confidence of Judge
> as described above, then wasn't Crosbie as Judge's
> "confidant" in A VERY GOOD POSITION to know about the TRUE
> relationship between Judge and Tingley?
> 
> Now consider Robert Crosbie's own testimony.
> 
> Here is what Judge's "confidant" (Robert Crosbie)
> publicly proclaimed on two separate occasions:
> 
> ". . . Katherine Tingley . . . was appointed by
> William Q. Judge as his successor."
> 
> "We feel that he [William Q. Judge] knows of the
> self-sacrificing efforts made by the faithful ones,
> and that those efforts have been called forth by his
> chosen successor [Mrs. Tingley], of whom he said, 'she
> is true as steel, as clear as diamond, and as lasting
> as time.' "
> 
> In this second statement by Crosbie, he quotes Judge
> as saying of Mrs. Tingley:
> 
> "she is true as steel, as clear as diamond, and as
> lasting as time."
> 
> Where did Crosbie obtain this Judge quote about
> Tingley?
> 
> This quote comes from one of Judge's diaries.
> 
> Did Crosbie ever see one of Judge's controversial diaries?
> 
> In 1932, Cyrus Field Willard wrote:
> 
> ". . . Robert Crosbie assured me that he [Judge] had
> [designated Katherine Tingely as his successor] and
> [Crosbie] also told me he had seen Judge's occult
> diary in which it was so stated. . . . ."
> 
> ". . . Later Crosbie came to me after he had left
> Point Loma [in 1904] and said that she never had been
> appointed by Judge. I recalled to him that he
> [Crosbie] had said after Judge's death when he
> returned to Boston that he [Judge] had and he denied
> it, and I told him either he was lying then or had
> been lying in Boston. . . . "
> 
> If Crosbie was really Judge's "confidant", is it so
> unreasonable to suppose that Crosbie had also seen
> Judge's diary as Willard claims?
> 
> Crosbie's estimation of Tingley as found in the above
> statements is corroborated by ANOTHER "confidant" and
> close friend of Judge's --- Jasper Niemand.
> 
> Jasper Niemand wrote:
> 
> ". . . the present Outer Head [Mrs. Tingley] has for
> two years past assisted Mr. Judge in the inner work of
> the School as his associate and equal. Some of these
> Councillors were doing important work under her
> directions, and by the order of Mr. Judge, for some
> time before he passed away. . . . For myself, I may
> say that as early as June, 1894, Mr. Judge told me of
> the standing of the present Outer Head in the school,
> and spoke of her work at that time and for the future.
> I am one among several to whom he so spoke himself.
> . . . ."
> 
> Jasper Niemand was the compiler of the two volumes of
> W.Q. Judge's "Letters That Have Helped Me."
> 
> Notice what Jasper wrote:
> 
> "I am one among several to whom he [Judge] so spoke
> himself."
> 
> In other words, Jasper also SHARED the CONFIDENCE of Mr.
> Judge.
> 
> BOTTOMLINE:
> 
> If Robert Crosbie really shared the confidence of Mr. Judge as
> the Theosophy Company publication ASSERTS then is it
> unreasonable to think that Crosbie ALSO KNEW what
> Niemand knew about the relationship between Mr. Judge
> and Mrs. Tingley?
> 
> Compare Crosbie's statements above about Mrs. Tingley with those of
> Niemand.
> 
> Some food for thought.
> 
> The sources of the quotes found in this email can be
> found at:
> 
> http://blavatskyarchives.com/stokeswqjktcon.htm
> 
> Daniel
> 
> 
> =====
> Daniel H. Caldwell
> BLAVATSKY STUDY CENTER/BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES
> http://blavatskyarchives.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
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