Theos-Talk Archives (November 2006 Message tt01166)

Friends,

Dr. Tillet writes: 

"I have never seen any direct claim by the TORC to any ?physical?
succession (after all, if The Master The Count helped to start it any mere
mortal could not contribute much of additional value!)."

Indeed, "theosophical" masonry and other Adyar ritualisms make an intense use of the name of Saint German and his 18th century portrait.  

It is interesting to note, though, that Leadbeater did not even invent a name for such an an Adept which would correspond to his live as an Adept (5th initiation). 

The name of "St. Germain" was used by such an Initiate in the 18th century, and even then it was not the only name used by Him in Europe. He then used other names as well. 

CW Leadbeater claimed to have seen him at the beginning of 20th century. He claimed to have full contact with such an Initiate.  But he did not have the courage, perhaps, or the necessary creativity, to invent any post-18th century name for "St. Germain". 

Even Leadbeaterian literature says that in the 18th century "St. Germain" was not an Adept yet.  But who would ever use still the same name as in the previous life? 

Besides, in the ML one reads that St. Germain "made his last exit HOME", suggesting he would be 'out of sight'  after his European efforts,  previous to the French revolution. And suggesting that "HOME" could be in the Himalayas. 


Regards,  Carlos.  


 
De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Wed, 22 Nov 2006 13:38:25 +1100 (EST)

Assunto:Theos-World TORC

> I have never seen any direct claim by the TORC to any ?physical?
> succession (after all, if The Master The Count helped to start it any mere
> mortal could not contribute much of additional value!). Certainly, it had
> nothing to do with the Crotona Fellowship, which only acquired a TS
> connection when Mabel Besant-Scott (Mrs Besant?s daughter) linked up with
> the Crotona group following a split in British Co-Masonry after her
> mother?s death. Crotona claimed a succession lost (inevitably) in the
> mists of time, although quite a lot has now been published on it. It was,
> incidentally, the means whereby Gerald Gardner made contact with those
> whom he (but not necessarily they) later alleged to have been the living
> continuation of British witchcraft.
> I suspect that Wedgwood may have made some inner claim to ?succession? of
> some sort via various ?successions? he acquired from John Yarker. Wedgwood
> had some (albeit unclear) links with various French occult groups from his
> earliest days in the TS. Likewise, Leadbeater?s ER does not seem to have
> claimed any ?physical? succession, although privately he claimed some
> authority from Memphis and Misraim, etc.
> The two standard approaches in such matters seem to be (i) we have an
> historical, physical continuity with [here name impressive source] and
> documents to prove it, or (ii) we have a direct authority from the
> Master/s (which is far better). Theosophical groups (apart from
> Co-Masonry, and even there Leadbeater claimed specific authority from the
> HOATF as well) tend to go for (ii) which, at least, eliminates the need
> for dubious documents, fanciful history and easily demolished claims of
> authenticity and historicity (as with AMORC). In modern times, many
> Masonic groups (e.g. SRIA) have tended to be more open and honest
> regarding their real historical origins as contrasted with their
> ?traditional? origins. Even AMORC has sort of begun this process with its
> most recent volume on its own history (?Rosicrucian History and Mysteries?
> by Christian Rebisse) ? not quite history but a lot less myth than Spencer
> Lewis and Witteman.
> The dilemma of "historical succession" or not is one which has troubled
> many groups, notably contemporary clainants to the GD tradition. Can you
> have a GD groups without a genuine, historical (tactile?) succession from
> a genuine GD group? Some answer "no" (and often then claim usually dubious
> successions). Others answer "yes" and argue that it is the "doing" rather
> than any succession that matters.
> 
> Dr Gregory Tillett
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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