Theos-Talk Archives (November 2006 Message tt00820)

Daniel,

Thanks. 

1)  Yes, the ULT is committed to preserve the original HPB teachings and has done a good, nay, excellent  work in that,  so far.  I hope you do not have a problem with that.

2) You say, again: "hundreds of changes and alterations had been made to 
the text of the TC edition. Later I was able to find Dr. H.N. Stoke's article which detailed the same observations that Walter had given me."   And I have to  say, again: if this is true indeed, which I do not know, well, to make minor editorial changes is not tampering. Tampering is what Algeo and you have done, for instance. Fraud is what you did, using names of imaginary persons (David Green, etc.) for your own purposes.  I hope you can see the difference. You have not shown content changes in Theosophy Co. editions.  

3) The fact that you do not show any content changes is most significant, for it is this which I am talking about. 

4) Discussions about "hundreds of changes", in abstract, are common in several directions.  As I said, Boris de Zirkoff has been accused of that, too.
The main, however, is the preservation of the teachings, and not the preservation of this or that form of transliteration, for instance. 

You have not substantiated more than inuendos, so far. 

Yet by focussing on the ULT, you are silently saying the small ULT is essential do the movement. 

On ignoring Adyar, you are silently saying Adyar TS is irrelevant to the movement.  In that, though, you are wrong. 


Regards,  Carlos. 


De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:16:23 -0000

Assunto:Theos-World Re: Daniel's Allegations: Part 1

> Carlos,
> 
> I wrote a posting which can be found at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/37553
> 
> In reply to my posting, you now write to me:
> 
> =========================================================
> What is, then the allegation you are trying to make?
> 
> You make a lot of inuendos, rhetorical questions, but is there any 
> real stuff in what you have to say?
> ========================================================
> 
> Let me briefly set the stage for my answers to your questions.
> 
> At the end of their Preface to THE SECRET DOCTRINE, the Theosophy 
> Company publishers make an important statement:
> 
> "With the present printing of THE SECRET DOCTRINE, The Theosophy
> Company continues ITS FUNCTION of providing students and inquirers
> with UNALTERED editions of the ORIGINAL literature of the
> Theosophical Movement...." [caps added to the words "its 
> function", "altered" and "original".]
> 
> The gist of this statement has been repeatd thousands of times by ULT 
> associates over the years.
> 
> In the archives of Theos-Talk there are probably dozens of statements 
> by the late Dallas Tenbroeck repeating this same theme. 
> 
> In my correspondence and discussions with ULT associates especially 
> in the late 1980s and early 1990s, this was a constant refrain by 
> them.
> 
> Now in the late 1980s, Walter A. Carrithers, Jr. first told me that 
> the Theosophy Company's edition of THE VOICE OF THE SILENCE was 
> NOT "a perfect facsimile of the original [1889] edition." He said, 
> that in fact, hundreds of changes and alterations had been made to 
> the text of the TC edition. Later I was able to find Dr. H.N. 
> Stoke's article which detailed the same observations that Walter had 
> given me.
> 
> Anyway I remember at this time writing to several ULT associates 
> repeating what I had learned from both Carrithers and Stokes. The 
> replies I received at that time were very disappointing. One 
> associate assured me that there were NO such changes as "alleged" by 
> Carrithers (and Stokes). The other correspondents were more vauge 
> and elusive in their replies.
> 
> Unfortunately, at the time I did not own a copy of HPB's original 
> 1889 edition so I could not do a comparison for myself.
> 
> Yet I did own a copy of the Theosophical University Press' edition of 
> THE VOICE. Although this edition was not a photographic facsimile of 
> HPB's original 1889 edition, it was stated on the title page to be "A 
> Verbatim Reproduction of the original edition of 1889."
> 
> So I started comparing this TUP edition with the Theosophy Company's 
> edition.
> 
> It didn't take long to discover that there were dozens ... and scores 
> and then ... hundreds of changes and alterations between these two 
> editions.
> 
> Again I pointed this finding out to some of my ULT correspondents. 
> Again most of them did not reply. Those that did either were puzzled 
> or still maintained that the Theosophy Company's edition was faithful 
> to HPB's original. One ULT associate even claimed that the TUP 
> edition was the one that had hundreds of changes and was not verbatim 
> with HPB's original.
> 
> The next obvious step for me was to find an original copy of HPB's 
> 1889 VOICE OF THE SILENCE. This took some time but I found a copy.
> 
> What I discovered was that what Carrithers and Stokes had stated was 
> correct, that is, that there were 100s of alterations and changes in 
> the Theosophy Company's edition of the VOICE when compared to HPB's 
> 1889 edition. I also discovered that the Theosophical University 
> Press edition was indeed faithful to HPB's original, that indeed it 
> was as stated on the title page "A Verbatim Reproduction of the 
> original edition of 1889."
> 
> When I started reporting some of these findings on the WWW in the 
> 1990s, that is when certain ULT associates started viewing me as 
> a "trouble-maker".
> 
> Silly me...I had originally thought they would be glad to know the 
> true facts!!
> 
> So Carlos, to end this Part 1 and before I write more in Part 2 in 
> direct answer to your questions that started this posting, I ask you 
> the following question:
> 
> Do you acknowledge and admit that the Theosophy Company's edition of 
> HPB's VOICE OF THE SILENCE has hundreds of changes and alterations 
> that do not appear in the original edition of HPB's VOICE???
> 
> Or in other words:
> 
> Are there hundreds of alterations and changes in the TC edition as 
> compared to HPB's 1889 edition?
> 
> A "yes" or "no" will suffice at this stage.
> 
> Later we can discuss what those "changes" and "alterations" signify.
> 
> In order to refresh your memory, I append BELOW some of those 
> documented changes.
> 
> Daniel
> http://hpb.cc
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Below are examples of some of these changes. Asterisks
> indicate italics.
> 
> On page vii of the original Preface, HPB wrote:
> 
> "The original *Precepts* are engraved on thin
> oblong squares; copies very often on discs."
> 
> The Theosophy Company's edition reads (p. ii):
> 
> "The original *Precepts* are engraved on thin
> oblongs; copies very often on discs."
> 
> Notice the deletion of the word "squares." Also the
> editorial change of "oblong" into "oblongs."
> 
> On p. 73 of the original VOICE, HPB wrote:
> 
> > The "great Master" is the term used by *lanoos* or
> > chelas to indicate one's "Higher Self."
> 
> The Theosophy Company's edition reads (p. 3):
> 
> > The "great Master" is the term used by
> > Lanoos or Chelas to indicate the HIGHER SELF.
> 
> As one can see, there are several changes in this one sentence
> including deleting a word and adding another.
> 
> 
> Again, HPB in the original wrote on pp. 74-75:
> 
> > It stands generally for the 100 years or "age" of Brahma, the
> > duration of a Kalpa or a period of 4,320,000,000 years.
> 
> The Theosophy Company's edition reads (p. 5):
> 
> > It stands generally for the 100 years or "age" of Brahma, the
> > duration of a Maha-Kalpa or a period of
> > 311,040,000,000,000 years.
> 
> The Theosophy Company's edition has apparently "corrected"
> and "improved" HPB's original.
> 
> 
> Again, the 1889 edition, p. 78:
> 
> > These mystic sounds or the melody heard by the ascetic . . . .
> 
> The TC edition changes this to (p. 19):
> 
> > The mystic sounds, or the melody, heard by the ascetic . . . .
> 
> "These" has been changed to "The"
> 
> Is this an "improvement"? Is this a "correction"?
> 
> 
> Again, the original VOICE, p. 87:
> 
> > *Upadya* is a spiritual perceptor, a Guru.
> 
> The TC editions reads (p. 49):
> 
> > *Upadhyaya* is a spiritual preceptor, a Guru.
> 
> Is this another "correction" of HPB's Sanskrit scholarship?
> 
> 
> Once, again, the original VOICE reads on p. 82:
> 
> > Bodhidharma called them in China---from whence
> > the names reached Tibet---the *Tsung-men* (esoteric)
> > and *Kiau-men* (exoteric school).
> 
> The TC edition changes this passage to read: (p. 25)
> 
> > The *Bodhidharma*, Wisdom Religion in China---
> > whence the names reached Tibet---called them the
> > *Tsung-men* (Esoteric) and *Kiau-men* (Exoteric
> > school).
> 
> 
> On pp. x-xi of the original, one finds the following:
> 
> > . . . (*Bhagavatgita II*. 70). . . .
> 
> > . . . (*Bhagavatgita II*. 27). . . .
> 
> The TC edition (p. iv) changes the spelling of this Hindu text and
> deletes the numbers "70" and "27".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
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