Re: Theos-World Re: CWL The revenge from Perfume of Egypt.
Nov 14, 2006 06:45 AM
by th . paijmans
As I have two copies of the 1912 edition of The Perfume of Egypt (which is not rare at all,
reprint copies of this
1912 edition were for years for cheap prices avialable at Health Research Molukeleme Hill.
Secondhand ) I am
going to check those statements.
As to antisemitism and racism, I read in James Webb that Blavatsky was antisemitic,
defending the pogroms in
Russia, and that "The Hebrew Talisman" pamphlet proves all this. Also, wasn't Juliana Glinka
a theosophist?
regards,
Theo
----- Oorspronkelijk bericht -----
Van: christinaleestemaker <christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com>
Datum: dinsdag, november 14, 2006 2:53 pm
Onderwerp: Theos-World Re: CWL The revenge from Perfume of Egypt.
> Also Leadbeater could not kill the killer of his brother Gerald
> look
> at page 262.
>
> Christina
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "christinaleestemaker"
> <christinaleestemaker@...> wrote:
> >
> > I have the same book and I stay saying Leadbeater have nothing to
> do
> > with racism and all things said about him.
> > That you see that different, say something about you.
> > Christina.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline"
> > <carlosaveline@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Christina,
> > >
> > > Hi.
> > >
> > > As my written references say, I am working with the
> > India/Adyar/TPH 1978 edition of "The Perfume".
> > >
> > > It is all there, the rascism, the contempt for black people,
> for
> > indigenous people, the lack of basic information about the
> profound
> > ethnic mixing which is the main characteristic in Brazil and in a
> > great part of Latin America...
> > >
> > > The pride in killing people with firearms...
> > >
> > >
> > > Best regards, Carlos.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Cópia:
> > >
> > > Data:Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:56:38 -0000
> > >
> > > Assunto:[Spam] Theos-World Re: CWL AGAINST BLACK/INDIGENOUS
> PEOPLES
> > >
> > > > -I have no quest book , but the original from TPH Adyar
> > > > Other question:
> > > > If we read the conqueror stories of that Red Indians,Spains
> and
> > so
> > > > on who conquered South America,are they good civilized people?
> > > > Also the whites are not always, the only thing I can say
> > Leadbeater
> > > > better could not write is that the blank is the superior race.
> > > > That is not at all.
> > > > Christina
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "'Cuervo'" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Carlos - Christina et al -
> > > > >
> > > > > The publishing policy at Quest Books initiated by Helen
> Zahara
> > > > when
> > > > > she came around 1970 was to edit out all negative racial
> and
> > > > ethnic
> > > > > comments, especially in the writings of Leadbeater, though
> I
> > think
> > > > > also in Jinarajadasa's introductory book on Theosophy.
> There
> > are
> > > > > examples in most of CWL's writings, but it is difficult to
> > find
> > > > the
> > > > > originals of some to compare with.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ken
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Christina,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Please look at the pages 167 and 168 of your "The Perfume
> of
> > > > > Egypt", TPH 1978 edition, and you will find these
> quotations
> > which
> > > > I
> > > > > comment below:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ooooooooo
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Leadbeater says about "red indians":
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Of these many tribes had adopted a kind of squalid
> > > > civilization,
> > > > > but many others were still savages untamed and untamable ?
> men
> > who
> > > > > regarded work of any kind as the deepest degradation ? who
> > hated
> > > > the
> > > > > white man with a traditional, unrelenting hatred, and
> (strange
> > as
> > > > it
> > > > > may seen) more than reciprocated the boundless contempt of
> the
> > > > blue-
> > > > > blooded hidalgo of Spain. It will be no doubt
> incomprehensible
> > to
> > > > > many of us that a half-naked savage can entertain any other
> > > > feeling
> > > > > than envy for our superior civilization, however much he
> may
> > > > dislike
> > > > > us; but I can only say that the quite genuine and
> unaffected
> > > > feeling
> > > > > of the Red Indian towards the white man is pure and
> > unmitigated
> > > > > contempt."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But CWL proceeds (p. 168) to develop his unbrotherly view
> of
> > > > human
> > > > > beings:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Then came the negro race ? no inconsiderable portion of
> the
> > > > > populations, and chiefly in a state of slavery, though the
> > > > > Government was doing all in its power to remove that curse
> > from
> > > > its
> > > > > territories; and last and worst came what were called the
> half-
> > > > > breeds or half-castes ? a mixed race which seemed, as mixed
> > races
> > > > > sometimes do, to combine all the worst qualities of both
> its
> > > > parent
> > > > > stocks. Indians, Spaniards, and Negro alike despised them;
> and
> > > > they
> > > > > in turn regarded all alike with a virulent hatred."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We can see in these words some strong `pioneer elements'
> for
> > the
> > > > > future ideologies of Nazism and Fascism, and ultimately for
> > the
> > > > mass-
> > > > > murder attemtps of "ethnic cleansing". Look at it again:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > " (...) and last and worst came what were called the half-
> > breeds
> > > > > or half-castes ? a mixed race which seemed (...) to combine
> > all
> > > > the
> > > > > worst qualities of both its parent stocks."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is Leadbeater.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brazil has been from the very beginning a miscigenation
> > people
> > > > and
> > > > > indigenous people here never present resintence or hated
> the
> > white
> > > > > people. Their culture was too primitive for that, say. We
> have
> > > > never
> > > > > had important racial tensions or hatred in Brazil, aas
> such,
> > > > though
> > > > > there was social violence.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Miscigenation is part of the preparation for the next sub-
> > race,
> > > > as
> > > > > HPB writes in the "Secret Doctrine".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards, Carlos.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Para:"theos-talk" theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cópia:"carlosaveline" carlosaveline@
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Data:Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:00:40 -0300
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Assunto:[Spam] Theos-World CWL AGAINST BLACK AND
> INDIGENOUS
> > > > PEOPLES
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dear Friends,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is about Bishop Leadbeater and his imaginary
> > adventures
> > > > in
> > > > > South America.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > C. Jinarajadasa believed he was there with Leadbeater
> in
> a
> > > > > previous body, and that he was his biological younger
> brother,
> > who
> > > > > was allegedly killed and 'rediscovered' by CWL in Ceylon.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In fact, in a footnote to his autobiographical Postface
> in
> > the
> > > > > book "The Seven Veils of Consciousness", C. Jinarajadasa
> > states
> > > > that
> > > > > that the true story of his own "previous (and glorious)
> death
> > in
> > > > > Brazil" is narrated in the chapter "Saved by a Ghost", of
> the
> > > > > book "The Perfume of Egypt" (2).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > C.J. believed everything CWL said, and he also writes
> in
> > the
> > > > > note that the same old silver crucifix which is mentioned
> in
> > that
> > > > > story was in his possession, as he wrote "The Seven Veils
> of
> > > > > Consciousness".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As to Leadbeater, in the preface of his 'The Perfume of
> > > > Egypt",
> > > > > he makes a solemn statement:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "The stories in this book happen to be true."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Along "Saved By a Ghost", the longest story of the
> volume,
> > > > > Leadbeater proudly describes how he killed numerous black
> > people
> > > > and
> > > > > indigenous people in South America during his youth.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Of course, common sense says that the story is as
> illusory
> > as
> > > > > the visits Leabeater made to physical plane civilizations
> in
> > Mars
> > > > > and Mercury.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But even if it were presented as a `short novel' pure
> and
> > > > > simple, and not as an autobiographical narration, the
> content
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > text reveals too much of racism and disrespect against
> black
> > > > people,
> > > > > indigenous people and their right to live. Leadbeater also
> > uses
> > > > the
> > > > > term "race" not in its theosophical meaning, but in the
> > > > > nationalistic way, as if each country had its own 'race',
> > > > > anticipating what Adolf Hitler would do decades later.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > At p. 167 of the Adyar edition, one starts to read his
> > > > > description of Brazilian people:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "First came the descendants of Spanish and Portuguese
> > > > > conquerors ? a haughty, indolent race; a race courtly and
> > > > > hospitable, by no means without its good qualities, but yet
> > one
> > > > > whose strongest characteristic was an immeasurable contempt
> > (or
> > > > the
> > > > > affectation of it) for all other races whatsoever".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The amount of illusions-per-line is outstanding here.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > First, Spanish people were never `conquerors' in
> Brazil.
> > The
> > > > > country was `discovered' and made a colony by Portugal.
> > Second,
> > > > > Portuguese people are not a race; and they cannot be easily
> > > > > described as `indolent'. Third, Portuguese people generaly
> did
> > not
> > > > > show `contempt' for other `races', and it is for this
> reason
> > that
> > > > > miscigenation ? intermarriage ? was from the first the main
> > > > > anthropological characteristic of the emerging Brazilian
> > nation.
> > > > > Portuguese people easily created strong personal links with
> > black
> > > > > people and indigenous people. (Of course, colonization was
> > also
> > > > > violent.)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In the next paragraph, "bishop" Leadbeater is even more
> > > > > surprising:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Next came red indians".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Well, there are no `red indians' in Brazil, although
> the
> > term
> > > > is
> > > > > very common in old North American Far West bang-bang
> stories,
> > in
> > > > > which hundreds of "bad" Indians get typically killed by a
> few
> > > > white
> > > > > men usually presented as brave heros.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Leadbeater says about "red indians":
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Of these many tribes had adopted a kind of squalid
> > > > > civilization, but many others were still savages untamed
> and
> > > > > untamable ? men who regarded work of any kind as the
> deepest
> > > > > degradation ? who hated the white man with a traditional,
> > > > > unrelenting hatred, and (strange as it may seen) more than
> > > > > reciprocated the boundless contempt of the blue-blooded
> > hidalgo of
> > > > > Spain. It will be no doubt incomprehensible to many of us
> that
> > a
> > > > > half-naked savage can entertain any other feeling than envy
> > for
> > > > our
> > > > > superior civilization, however much he may dislike us; but
> I
> > can
> > > > > only say that the quite genuine and unaffected feeling of
> the
> > Red
> > > > > Indian towards the white man is pure and unmitigated
> > contempt."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What are the problems in these few lines? First, again
> > comes
> > > > the
> > > > > Spanish `hidalgo' (nobleman) apparently ruling Brazil, a
> > country
> > > > > which was independent from Portugal (not Spain), since
> 1822,
> > and
> > > > was
> > > > > never under any "Spanish' ruling class. Second, the `red
> > Indian'
> > > > > again. Third, indigenous people and did not express hate
> > against
> > > > > white people, and never actively resisted the domination of
> > > > European
> > > > > rulers in Brazil. These two paragraphs simply can't refer
> to
> > any
> > > > > South American country.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But CWL proceeds (p. 168) to develop his unbrotherly
> view
> > of
> > > > > human beings:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Then came the negro race ? no inconsiderable portion
> of
> > the
> > > > > populations, and chiefly in a state of slavery, though the
> > > > > Government was doing all in its power to remove that curse
> > from
> > > > its
> > > > > territories; and last and worst came what were called the
> half-
> > > > > breeds or half-castes ? a mixed race which seemed, as mixed
> > races
> > > > > sometimes do, to combine all the worst qualities of both
> its
> > > > parent
> > > > > stocks. Indians, Spaniards, and Negro alike despised them;
> and
> > > > they
> > > > > in turn regarded all alike with a virulent hatred."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We can see in these words some strong `pioneer
> elements'
> > for
> > > > the
> > > > > future ideologies of Nazism and Fascism, and ultimately for
> > the
> > > > mass-
> > > > > murder attemtps of "ethnic cleansing". Look at it again:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > " (...) and last and worst came what were called the
> half-
> > > > breeds
> > > > > or half-castes ? a mixed race which seemed (...) to combine
> > all
> > > > the
> > > > > worst qualities of both its parent stocks."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is Leadbeater.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But -- what about Theosophy? What does esoteric
> philosophy
> > > > > really say about the relations between rich and poor
> nations
> > and
> > > > > among all different ethnical groups, with their varied
> kinds
> > of
> > > > > colours in the skin? In the "Letters from the Masters", the
> > famous
> > > > > letter known as coming from the "Great Master" says:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "To achieve the proposed object, a greater, a wiser,
> and
> > > > > especially a more benevolent intermingling of the high and
> the
> > > > low,
> > > > > of the Alpha and the Omega of Society, was determined upon.
> > The
> > > > > white race must be the first to stretch out the hand of
> > fellowship
> > > > > to the dark nations, to call the poor despised `nigger'
> > brother.
> > > > > This prospect may not smile to all, but he is no
> Theosophist
> > who
> > > > > objects to his principle" (2)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > One can only conclude, then, that in writing that
> > paragraph
> > > > > Leadbeater was "no theosophist".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In fact, Leadbeater's vision of human beings as
> presented
> > in
> > > > > that long story is not only ethically and culturally
> > unacceptable.
> > > > > It is also legally criminal, for racism and stimulation of
> > hatred
> > > > > among people of different skin-colours has been defined as
> > crime
> > > > in
> > > > > Brazil a few years ago.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > One can understand why the Brazilian edition of "Saved
> By
> > a
> > > > > Ghost" cannot be found in Brazilian bookshops any longer.
> Yet
> > it
> > > > is
> > > > > still for sale at Adyar, it seems.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ( In another posting, I should refer to Leadbeater's
> > proudly
> > > > > alleged acts of violence leading to death, which, even if
> seen
> > as
> > > > > fictional, are profoundly untheosophical. )
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Best regards, Carlos.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > NOTE:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > (1) "The Perfume of Egypt", by C. W. Leadbeater, whose
> > sixth
> > > > > edition (TPH Adyar, 265 pp.) is dated 1978.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > (2) "Letters From the Masters of the Wisdom", compiled
> by
> > C.
> > > > > Jinarajadasa, Adyar TPH, first series, Letter number one,
> > known
> > > > > as `the Maha-Chohan Letter' or "the Great Master Letter'.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam
> Inteligente
> > > > Terra.
> > > > > > > Para alterar a categoria classificada, visite
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> > > > >
> > > >
> >
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> > > > > br,11364,20031127114101,20031127114101
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> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam Inteligente
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