Theos-Talk Archives (November 2006 Message tt00636)

Carl,

You wrote:   

" (...) 8. In the original Book of Rules of the ES, it is said that 
> membership in other esoteric organisations is forbidden for an ES-
> members, with the exception of Masonry and Odd Fellow. This rule 
was  later changed (by HPB), so it also permitter membership in the GD.  Way?"

I submit you two questions and a commentary: 

"When did she change such a rule to allow members of her Esoteric School to be members of the Golden Down?   What is the bibliographical reference for that, if any, please? I am not at library, but I dont remember seeing such a permission in the Volume XII of HPB's Collected Writings. As long aas I know, she gave that permision and was, on the contrary, worried about the mnovement being infiltrated y Golden Dawn, which may have inspired C.W. Leadbeater with mixing 'sex and occultism'. But these are but questions, as  this is not my 'main area' of research." 

As far as I am concerned, Golden Dawn people could have used her name 'in vain' after May 1891, with supposed letters from her, ascribed to previous dates --  just as C. W. Leadbeater proclaimed himself a follower of her teachings. 

I will appreciate your commentaries.

(I have some bibliography on HPB versus Golden Dawn, I should look at it once more.)  

Regards, Carlos. 

Carlos. 



De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Sat, 11 Nov 2006 01:19:15 -0000

Assunto:Theos-World Re: More on HPB?s relations with ritualistic groups

> Carl - I have reviewed a little Golden Dawn history and it is 
> certainly curious that "Fräulein Sprengel" ceased writing or died in 
> the first half of 1891, approximately the same time as HPB. Are any 
> of her letters extant where it could be possible to compare 
> handwriting, word usage and writing style ? Regarding Crowley's 
> commentary on HPB's 'Voice of the Silence', I have a copy, (as I 
> collect everything relating to the 'Voice'). For the first time I 
> have now read through Crowley's comments - always some positive and 
> then some negative comments regarding Blavatsky....(and alot about 
> Crowley!) so far I do not see anything where he suggests HPB 
> was "Fräulein Sprengel" or connected to the 'Secret Chiefs' but I 
> could have missed something. Do you know how many of the first 
> Golden Dawn members were also Theosophists ?
> 
> Ken
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Ek" wrote:
> >
> > I think we all know quit well the history and activities of and 
> > within the Golden Dawn, so I can't see any reason for giving here 
> > any description or introduction on that order.
> > 
> > The GD was ruled by "Secret Chiefs", as I think you all know, so 
> in 
> > concern to this I have some questions and claims that could be 
> > interesting to look closer on.
> > 
> > 1. Do we know any names of this "Secret Chiefs"?
> > 2. Who as the real "Fräulein Anna Sprengel"?
> > 3. What was the civil name of "the Greatly Honoured Soror 
> > Sapiens Dominabitur Astris", and was this "Fräulein Sprengel" 
> > name within the GD?
> > 4. Where was "Fräulein Sprengel" letter posted?
> > 5. Where was HPB when "Fräulein Sprengel" wrote her letters?
> > 6. Where lived "the Greatly Honoured Soror Sapiens Dominabitur 
> > Astris"?
> > 7. Who (it was probably one person) was behind the two GD-
> > nicknames "Madam Horus" and "the Swami"?
> > 8. In the original Book of Rules of the ES, it is said that 
> > membership in other esoteric organisations is forbidden for an ES-
> > members, with the exception of Masonry and Odd Fellow. This rule 
> was 
> > later changed (by HPB), so it also permitter membership in the GD. 
> > Way?
> > 9. Did "Fräulein Sprengel" wrote in any other language, then 
> > English?
> > 
> > On some questions of the above question, we have answers:
> > 
> > 1. No for sure, but some can be sucpected.
> > 2. No for sure, but someone can be sucpected.
> > 3. Yes
> > 4. In Stuttgart, Würzburg and München.
> > 5. In Würzburg, Elberfeld, Ostende and London.
> > 6. Said to have lived in Bavaria and London.
> > 7. Not clear, but it was not HBP as some authors are claming, 
> > hence she faced trail in 1901 together with Mathers. But it could 
> > have been another "Madam Horus" and "the Swami" that faced trail 
> > with Mathers, hence I trust more the word of dog of guarding a 
> bone, 
> > then I trust Mathers.
> > 8. Could it be hence her self (HPB), WWW and thirty others TS 
> > and ES members was that? WWW and the thirty others we know for 
> sure.
> > 9. No, she did not.
> > 
> > 
> > So was HPB the mysterious "the Greatly Honoured Soror Sapiens 
> > Dominabitur Astris"/"Fräulein Sprengel"? 
> > 
> > Three things could be said about this.
> > 1. It is a quit common opinion with in both TS Pasadena and the 
> > ULT, that this is the fact.
> > 2. In his commentaries to The Voice of the Silence", "Liber 
> > LXXI" Crowley is saying that, and already on the titlepage. 
> > 3. Incidents are pointing in that direction (see above).
> > 
> > So are there any proven facts that HPB was a Secret Chief of the 
> GD? 
> > Does anyone here know of any? Has any other author then Crowley 
> said 
> > that she was?
> > 
> > Ok, Crowley is maybe not always the most trustworthy author, by 
> has 
> > he any reason to lie in this matter? 
> > 
> > Carl
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
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