Theos-Talk Archives (November 2006 Message tt00631)

Ken,
It is the Grad number after HPB's name, on the front page that is 
the Grad number of a Secret Chief.

See also the "The "Rosicrucian" Scandal" by Leo Vincey [Aleister 
Crowley].

All the founders of the Golden Dawn was members of TS (some of them, 
Mathers was one, later left TS), and around 1890, 30 members of the 
TS and ES in London, was also members of GD (ex WWW).

More later.

Carl

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "'Cuervo'" <Kensmall@...> wrote:
>
> Carl - I have reviewed a little Golden Dawn history and it is 
> certainly curious that "Fräulein Sprengel" ceased writing or died 
in 
> the first half of 1891, approximately the same time as HPB. Are 
any 
> of her letters extant where it could be possible  to compare 
> handwriting, word usage and writing style ? Regarding Crowley's 
> commentary on HPB's 'Voice of the Silence', I have a copy, (as I 
> collect everything relating to the 'Voice'). For the first time I 
> have now read through Crowley's comments - always some positive 
and 
> then some negative comments regarding Blavatsky....(and alot about 
> Crowley!) so far I do not see anything where he suggests HPB 
> was "Fräulein Sprengel" or connected to the 'Secret Chiefs' but I 
> could have missed something. Do you know how many of the first 
> Golden Dawn members were also Theosophists ?
> 
> Ken
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Ek" <carl.ek@> wrote:
> >
> > I think we all know quit well the history and activities of and 
> > within the Golden Dawn, so I can't see any reason for giving 
here 
> > any description or introduction on that order.
> > 
> > The GD was ruled by "Secret Chiefs", as I think you all know, so 
> in 
> > concern to this I have some questions and claims that could be 
> > interesting to look closer on.
> > 
> > 1.	Do we know any names of this "Secret Chiefs"?
> > 2.	Who as the real "Fräulein Anna Sprengel"?
> > 3.	What was the civil name of "the Greatly Honoured Soror 
> > Sapiens Dominabitur	Astris", and was this "Fräulein Sprengel" 
> > name within the GD?
> > 4.	Where was "Fräulein Sprengel" letter posted?
> > 5.	Where was HPB when "Fräulein Sprengel" wrote her letters?
> > 6.	Where lived "the Greatly Honoured Soror Sapiens Dominabitur 
> > Astris"?
> > 7.	Who (it was probably one person) was behind the two GD-
> > nicknames "Madam Horus" and "the Swami"?
> > 8.	In the original Book of Rules of the ES, it is said that 
> > membership in other esoteric organisations is forbidden for an 
ES-
> > members, with the exception of Masonry and Odd Fellow. This rule 
> was 
> > later changed (by HPB), so it also permitter membership in the 
GD. 
> > Way?
> > 9.	Did "Fräulein Sprengel" wrote in any other language, then 
> > English?
> > 
> > On some questions of the above question, we have answers:
> > 
> > 1.	No for sure, but some can be sucpected.
> > 2.	No for sure, but someone can be sucpected.
> > 3.	Yes
> > 4.	In Stuttgart, Würzburg and München.
> > 5.	In Würzburg, Elberfeld, Ostende and London.
> > 6.	Said to have lived in Bavaria and London.
> > 7.	Not clear, but it was not HBP as some authors are claming, 
> > hence she faced trail in 1901 together with Mathers. But it 
could 
> > have been another "Madam Horus" and "the Swami" that faced trail 
> > with Mathers, hence I trust more the word of dog of guarding a 
> bone, 
> > then I trust Mathers.
> > 8.	Could it be hence her self (HPB), WWW and thirty others TS 
> > and ES members was that? WWW and the thirty others we know for 
> sure.
> > 9.	No, she did not.
> > 
> > 
> > So was HPB the mysterious "the Greatly Honoured Soror Sapiens 
> > Dominabitur Astris"/"Fräulein Sprengel"? 
> > 
> > Three things could be said about this.
> > 1.	It is a quit common opinion with in both TS Pasadena and the 
> > ULT, that this is the fact.
> > 2.	In his commentaries to The Voice of the Silence", "Liber 
> > LXXI" Crowley is saying that, and already on the titlepage. 
> > 3.	Incidents are pointing in that direction (see above).
> > 
> > So are there any proven facts that HPB was a Secret Chief of the 
> GD? 
> > Does anyone here know of any? Has any other author then Crowley 
> said 
> > that she was?
> > 
> > Ok, Crowley is maybe not always the most trustworthy author, by 
> has 
> > he any reason to lie in this matter? 
> > 
> > Carl
> >
>