Theos-Talk Archives (November 2006 Message tt00476)

Carlos, thanks!

Let me then clarify some tings for you. 

I was an ULT-associate for twelve year's (left the ULT in 2003, for 
reasons, see below), and belonged to the ULT Lodge in Malmö (there I 
was a member of the "working group" (the ruling body), an intuition 
with no official name). I was then active as lecturer, study group 
leader and writer. After I moved to Gothenburg, in 2002, I founded 
and run the Gothenburg ULT Study group (with one lecture per week, 
always held by me, and two study groups per week, both lead by me) 
for about one year. In the groups were 35 participants. I have 
probably participated in a couple of hundred ULT-meetings, and meet 
and talked to several of the leaders. In 2003 I decide to leave the 
ULT, for the following reasons:

1.	Based on by own historical researching, I founded that the 
official ULT/TC-history was in several parts not true.
2.	I founded (for the reason that I bought al the original 
first printings of al of HPB and WQJ books, and also several numbers 
of The Path and Lucifer, so I was able to compare) that the so 
called "Facsimile Edition" and "Photographical Reproductions" was 
not that at all. And I considered the constant attacks of ULT on TS 
Pasadena and TS Adyar for have changed in their versions of the 
Theosophical literature was unjust, when the ULT/TC had done the 
same. 
3.	The ULT-people considered them self been the only true 
theosophist, and superior to al other. 
4.	There were some economical activities that I could not 
accept. 
5.	The ULT in the US was very different, from the ULT in the 
EU. In the US some ULT-people are more or less fanatical. 
6.	Many leading associates had (or probably even still has) an 
ongoing and constant discussion on who was and wasn't a Chela, and 
in contact with the Masters. Within the ULT was 
several "candidates", and one had one "favorite", and one another 
one.
7.	If you had questions, you never got real answers. If I asked 
one of the European Secretaries (the heads of the local lodges) 
about decisions, rules, polices etc, the only answer I usually got 
as; "Made by the people in LA". How, when, way etc, was not easy to 
find out. Sometime, they told, but this was always followed by; "But 
don't tell anyone else". 

Carlos. I can also tell you that in al ULT lodges are a ritual 
(locally created, after a fixed form) for the celebrations of White 
Lotus Day, W.Q.J.-Day and U.L.T.-Day (in some lodges call Robert 
Crosbie-Day). Every ULT-lodge meeting has a fixed routine, which 
always starts with an introduction/"a welcome word", after that is 
the Declaration read, followed by the lecture and questions. It is 
always 10+5+30+15=60 min (except the first meeting per month, then 
there are 5-10 minutes questions on the Declaration, before the 
lecture, and this even if there only are ULT-people on the meeting), 
and finished. In many lodges, even a coffee after the meetings is 
banned. So no social activities. It is the same al over the world (I 
have visit several ULT lodges and groups, in several countries), and 
it is nothing else then a ritual. Every ULT study group starts 
always in the same way as the lodge meetings. 

There is one that can talk in the name of the ULT, namely the 
Secretary General (the highest ULT officer).
 
And for those how maybe are wondering. I am today a fellow of the 
Swedish Theosophical Society (founded by Dr. Gustav Zander 1889, and 
reorganized 2002, I joined 2003), and a fellow of the Theosophical 
Society in Germany (founded by Dr. Franz Hartmann 1897, I joined 
2005). 

Carl

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
<carlosaveline@...> wrote:
>
> Carl,
> 
> I should tell you a few things to clarify:
> 
> 1) I have never been to a physical meeting with ULT associates;
> 
> 2) No one can talk in the name of the ULT, I least of all;
> 
> 3) I talk for myself. 
> 
> 4) I defend the ULT here as I would defend the Pasadena TS or the 
Point Loma groups, were they attacked. 
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,  Carlos. 
> 
> De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Cópia:
> 
> Data:Tue, 07 Nov 2006 05:34:16 -0000
> 
> Assunto:Theos-World Re: What is sauce for the goose is sauce for 
the gander??
> 
> > Daniel,
> > I very good point. It looks very much like the ULT consider them 
> > self to be superior others in many aspects, and have rights 
which 
> > other don't have. In other word, denied by them.
> > 
> > May I ask what kind of answer you received?
> > 
> > Carl
> > 
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "danielhcaldwell" 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear --------- [ULT student],
> > > 
> > > To help me understand YOUR POINT OF VIEW, I would ask you to 
give 
> > me 
> > > your thoughts and opinion on the following.
> > > 
> > > When I publicly posted some extracts from one of HPB's 
Esoteric 
> > > Instructions, you wrote me that you strongly protested my 
posting 
> > of 
> > > these HPB quotations from an "esoteric" or "private" document.
> > > 
> > > Read more of this letter at:
> > > 
> > > http://blavatskyarchives.com/sauceforthegoose.htm
> > > 
> > > Daniel
> > > http://hpb.cc
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam Inteligente Terra.
> > Para alterar a categoria classificada, visite
> > http://mail.terra.com.br/protected_email/imail/imail.cgi?
+_u=carlosaveline&_l=1,1162878006.767523.26788.sotovento.hst.terra.co
m.br,4297,Des15,Des15
> > 
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> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>